[NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day

Wed Jul 9 17:47:42 AKDT 2008

I would argue against that there "has never been a rule (in AMA) that  
the 1st radii is the standard for the maneuver".

I've been judging for many years and I challenge anyone to be able to  
sort through all the different radii in a Square Horizontal Eight,  
decide what the "standard' radius was, how much the various radii  
differed from it, assign downgrades and write a score on the  
scoresheet before the airplane was in the next maneuver.

Regards also,

Ron Van Putte

On Jul 9, 2008, at 4:51 PM, Dave wrote:

> "Since, in the latest vote on rule changes, RCA-09-3 failed, we  
> need to
> train judges that 1. The first radius does not set the standard"
>
> I sincerely hope prior training was not contrary to the above?  It  
> has never
> been a rule (in AMA) that the 1st radii is the standard for the  
> maneuver -
> and it never should be!!  When 7 radii in a square 8 are the same,  
> and 1 is
> different - it should be painfully obvious which radii is to be  
> downgraded.
> FAI has screwed up making the 1st radii the standard for the  
> maneuver - no
> need for AMA to blindly follow that error (or any others - ie, AMA  
> rules
> should never include process or procedure to automatically adopt  
> anything
> from FAI - AMA can always choose to copy or follow FAI).
>
> Noting every single error and element in complex maneuvers is not  
> easy (nor
> is flying them easy).  And just like every pilot is not capable of  
> every
> maneuver, not every judge is going to catch all errors all the  
> time.  This
> is a competitive event, and for the both the pilot and the just,  
> there is
> only 1 that is the best.  And in both cases, the "best" is probably  
> the one
> with the "best" combination of talent, hardwork, practice, and  
> training.  I
> see no need to either dumb down the maneuvers or dumb down the judging
> criteria to blur the distinction between the best and 2nd best -  
> seems quite
> contrary to the goal in pattern of perfect maneuvers.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dave Lockhart
> DaveL322 at comcast.net
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron  
> Van Putte
> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 10:36 AM
> To: General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day
>
> I wonder how many judges are able to do all those steps in
> determining and recording a score before the next maneuver starts.
> Remember, many of these judges are the ones who can't write down a
> score without looking away from the airplane and looking down at the
> scoresheet.
>
> Ron VP
>
> On Jul 9, 2008, at 9:31 AM, Joe Dunnaway wrote:
>
>> It's nothing different than what we have been doing.
>>
>> Joe Dunnaway
>>
>> Ron Van Putte wrote:
>>> Yeah, lets quit talking about that.  Plus, let's not talk about
>>> spins and snaps.  Let's talk about how to judge the eight
>>> different radii in the Square Horizontal Eight.  Since, in the
>>> latest vote on rule changes, RCA-09-3 failed, we need to train
>>> judges that 1. The first radius does not set the standard,   2.
>>> They have to decide what radius represents most of the radii in
>>> the maneuver,  3.  They must determine how each radius deviates
>>> from this standard and assign a downgrade,  4.  They then must add
>>> up all the downgrades and subtract the sum of the downgrades from
>>> 10 and 5.  They must write the score down on the scoresheet before
>>> the airplane enters the next maneuver.  Nothing to it; it just
>>> takes a little training.
>>>
>>> Ron VP
>>>
>>> On Jul 8, 2008, at 10:41 PM, Wayne Galligan wrote:
>>>
>>>> Now we are back to the driveway, parkway thing huh?
>>>>
>>>> WG
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Keith Hoard
>>>> To: General pattern discussion
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 3:50 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day
>>>>
>>>> "Then I stopped in the middle of the road and went outside began
>>>> yelling at people to 'get the hell out of my driveway!!!' . . ."
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 10:42 PM, Wayne Galligan
>>>> <wgalligan at att.net> wrote:
>>>> Actually Steven Wright went home one night and put the key in the
>>>> door to the house to open it and it started.... so he drove it
>>>> around the block.
>>>>
>>>> WG
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Tim Taylor
>>>> To: General pattern discussion
>>>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 4:15 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day
>>>>
>>>> Steven Wright not Carlin
>>>>
>>>> --- On Mon, 7/7/08, Ron Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net> wrote:
>>>> From: Ron Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day
>>>> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>> Date: Monday, July 7, 2008, 3:08 PM
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, but as George Carlin once asked, "Why do we drive on the
>>>> parkway and park on the driveway?" Ron VP On Jul 7, 2008, at
>>>> 12:54 PM, Anthony Abdullah wrote: > Particularly considering a
>>>> bra holds a pair of... Well, you know > what I am getting at. > >
>>>> Bob Richards <bob at toprudder.com> wrote: > I'm still waiting for
>>>> them to burn pantys. > > BTW, how come is it a "pair of pantys"
>>>> but only "one bra"??? > > Bob R > > --- On Mon, 7/7/08, Del
>>>> <drykert2 at rochester.rr.com> wrote: > Hmmm `~ brings back memories
>>>> when women insisted on burning their > bra's... ~~ I never
>>>> complained~~ just raised my eyelids for closer > observation..
>>>> <g> > > Del > > ps ~~ realize it may be an age related comment ..
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>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>>
>>>> Keith Hoard
>>>> Collierville, TN
>>>> khoard at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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