[NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?

Del Rykert drykert2 at rochester.rr.com
Mon Feb 4 04:25:22 AKST 2008


Only that some assumed that master class was purely taking FAI sequences to make up the masters class maneuvers.
 
    Del

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Burton" <burtona at atmc.net>
To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'" <nsrca-discussion at lists.f3a.us>
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?


> Dang, I missed something. I thought we were only talking about what maneuver
> schedule Masters Class would fly!
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JShulman [mailto:jshulman at cfl.rr.com] 
> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 1:40 PM
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?
> 
> So if FAI pilots, that are flying FAI now, want to fly FAI (P and F), and
> Masters pilots, that are flying Masters now, want to fly Masters, what are
> we really "discussing"? Are we looking for a middle class to call Masters +
> for the guys that want to fly P and not F or Masters? Sounds like the
> addition of an Expert class in AMA to give the fliers in Masters, that want
> a P type of sequence, a place to go?
> 
> Regards,
> Jason
> www.jasonshulman.com
> www.shulmanaviation.com
> www.composite-arf.com
> 
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski
>  Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 1:22 PM
>  To: NSRCA Mailing List
>  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?
> 
> 
> 
>  Del, something I totally agree with you on<g>. If that is the gist of the
> question you ask of which  the answer in my mind is no.
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    From: drykert2 at rochester.rr.com
>    To: nsrca-discussion at lists.f3a.us
>    Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 11:59:12 -0500
>    Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?
> 
> 
>    Is catering to the professional pilots what will draw more people into
> the NSRCA and flying pattern?
> 
>        Del
>      ----- Original Message -----
>      From: vicenterc at comcast.net
>      To: johnfuqua at embarqmail.com ; NSRCA Mailing List ; 'NSRCA Mailing
> List'
>      Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 11:18 AM
>      Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?
> 
> 
>      I think the idea is that the destination class (if we changed to
> FAI-F3A) will fly the F-Schedule also.  I see very strong advantages from
> judging point of view.  Both classes Masters and FAI-F3A will know the P
> schedule really well since both are flying the same maneuvers.  I expect
> that the judging level is going to be improved.  Yes, the Masters pilots
> will need to learn the F-Schedule.  Finally, I think more professional
> pilots will be willing to participate in local contests because we will have
> more competition at the FAI-F3A level.  I think if we do this could be fun
> that is the general agreement.
> 
>      Regards,
> 
>      --
>      Vicente "Vince" Bortone
> 
>        -------------- Original message --------------
>        From: "John Fuqua" <johnfuqua at embarqmail.com>
> 
>        I have been following this discussion with some relutance to jump
> in.  As a current Masters pilot and old time F3A flyer I to once pushed to
> have the Master schedule be the P schedule.  But you guys need to look at
> what FAI has done to the P schedule.  Here is link to the F3A rules.
> http://www.fai.org/aeromodelling/documents/sc4
>        FAI has reduced the total maneuvers to 19 including a non scored
> takeoff and landing.   AMA Master is 23 including a scored takeoff and
> landing.
> 
>        Going to FAI would certainly speed things up (which is what FAI
> intended for large contests like WC to speed up the prelims and get to the
> real contest).
> 
>        Not sure this is what AMA/NSRCA membership wants for a destination
> class.
> 
>        John
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>        From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Del Rykert
>        Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 7:14 AM
>        To: NSRCA Mailing List
>        Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?
> 
> 
> 
>        Hi Dave..
> 
>        I never saw anyone suggesting to do away with the Masters class.. I
> have thought of another restriction/factor. Some of the FAI maneuvers
> require a specific designed plane to do them well. If you don't have such an
> aircraft in your stable you can be looking at a prohibitive change to switch
> to those type of planes or live with the self imposed handicap. Granted,
> some of the best can make a good showing in FAI type maneuvers but when
> needing the 1 point advantage in a high K-Factor maneuver it does drive the
> contestants to seek the best sled that works for them.
> 
>        A good friend pointed out something I had lost sight of once.  He
> acquired a newer designed airplane to his stable that performed the
> maneuvers he was flying so much easier. The design choice alone was raising
> his scores by almost 1 point per maneuver. With only a little bit of
> practice with new plane. He never appreciated the handicap he self imposed
> until having better equipment. Heck.. I still have coreless servos and not a
> digital do I own..  How far behind am I? LOL.
> 
>            Del
>          ----- Original Message -----
>          From: Dave Burton
>          To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'
>          Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 7:33 PM
>          Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F at locals?
> 
> 
>          Del, I've never advocated doing away with the Master's class. I
> only suggested adopting the most current FAI P maneuver schedule and fly
> Master's as a separate class as we do today. Masters pilots would not be
> required to advance to the FAI class unless they chose to do so. Seems to me
> like it solves several problems. It allows a CD to have more flexibility in
> arranging flight lines, a larger pool of knowledgeable judges, eliminates
> the need for NSRCA (or others) to come up with a new schedule periodically
> for the Masters Class. I don't think there is any difference in the
> difficulty level of the P schedule and the Masters schedule today and would
> not require any greater skill level than Masters does today IMO.
> 
>          Dave Burton
> 
> 
> 
>          From: Del Rykert [mailto:drykert2 at rochester.rr.com]
>          Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 7:09 PM
>          To: NSRCA Mailing List
>          Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F at locals?
> 
> 
> 
>          Hi Dave
> 
> 
> 
>          I'm not trying to imply that I have the correct answer to that
> question. Not all people that advance through the AMA classes have the
> desire or deep pockets to handle being competitive at the FAI level. Some
> Master fliers in the past have told me the time commitment is high to be
> competitive in FAI class. Higher than they can accept. That may be the
> biggest reason. Not certain.  But they do enjoy the difficulty and challenge
> of flying masters and if told they had to move to FAI or if pointed out and
> made to move up to FAI some would choose to leave. I see it as part of the
> dues some are willing to commit to play. Some drop out after making it to
> intermediate. Others after reaching advanced. Some have stayed and still fly
> those classes but real! ize the y don't have the time, desire, money, to
> move up and be challenging or at least make a decent showing they can accept
> for themselves. I believe the competitive factor varies with us all and what
> we are willing to commit to fly pattern.
> 
> 
> 
>          I'm even suspect their are other issues that escape us and why
> they are happy to fly Masters.
> 
> 
> 
>              Del
> 
>            ----- Original Message -----
> 
>            From: Dave Burton
> 
>            To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'
> 
>            Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 6:10 PM
> 
>            Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F at locals?
> 
> 
> 
>            Del, what's the difference between " FAI type" schedules and
> "Masters schedules"? You are correct about previous proposals not being
> accepted. I have submitted a rules change twice for Masters to fly the P
> schedule and it was defeated both times. Won't do that again, but I never
> understood the opposition to it.
> 
> 
> 
>            From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Del Rykert
>            Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 3:24 PM
>            To: NSRCA Mailing List
>            Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F at locals?
> 
> 
> 
>            So it would be acceptable to you to drive some away from pattern
> as it has been clearly stated that some Master fliers by choice do not want
> to fly FAI type schedules.  It has been voted on with surveys and discussed
> on this list in the past to not use that approach.
> 
> 
> 
>                Del
> 
>              ----- Original Message -----
> 
>              From: vicenterc at comcast.net
> 
>              To: NSRCA Mailing List
> 
>              Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 11:48 AM
> 
>              Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F at locals?
> 
> 
> 
>              I believe that FAI rules states that it is required more than
> 2 days event to fly F schedule.  I am sure that someone out there is going
> to be able to find if I am correct or not.  Of course, we can use the AMA
> rules and the CD can override this if he announces the change with time.
> 
> 
> 
>              I agree that in Masters we should fly the current P schedule.
> This will make a natural transition when moving Masters to F3A.  The rules
> should be changed to make the F3A class the final destination of AMA
> classes.  In other worlds,  Masters should not be the final destination as
> it is now.
> 
> 
> 
>              --
>              Vicente "Vince" Bortone
> 
> 
> 
>                -------------- Original message --------------
>                From: "Tony" <tony at radiosouthrc.com>
> 
>                Those are the very reasons that I stopped flying FAI.  The
> FAI rules state that the F patterns are for Regional, National and
> International events, and are not designed to be flown at a local contest=
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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