[NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?
Dave Burton
burtona at atmc.net
Sun Feb 3 13:26:45 AKST 2008
Dang, I missed something. I thought we were only talking about what maneuver
schedule Masters Class would fly!
-----Original Message-----
From: JShulman [mailto:jshulman at cfl.rr.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 1:40 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?
So if FAI pilots, that are flying FAI now, want to fly FAI (P and F), and
Masters pilots, that are flying Masters now, want to fly Masters, what are
we really "discussing"? Are we looking for a middle class to call Masters +
for the guys that want to fly P and not F or Masters? Sounds like the
addition of an Expert class in AMA to give the fliers in Masters, that want
a P type of sequence, a place to go?
Regards,
Jason
www.jasonshulman.com
www.shulmanaviation.com
www.composite-arf.com
-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 1:22 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?
Del, something I totally agree with you on<g>. If that is the gist of the
question you ask of which the answer in my mind is no.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: drykert2 at rochester.rr.com
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.f3a.us
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 11:59:12 -0500
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?
Is catering to the professional pilots what will draw more people into
the NSRCA and flying pattern?
Del
----- Original Message -----
From: vicenterc at comcast.net
To: johnfuqua at embarqmail.com ; NSRCA Mailing List ; 'NSRCA Mailing
List'
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?
I think the idea is that the destination class (if we changed to
FAI-F3A) will fly the F-Schedule also. I see very strong advantages from
judging point of view. Both classes Masters and FAI-F3A will know the P
schedule really well since both are flying the same maneuvers. I expect
that the judging level is going to be improved. Yes, the Masters pilots
will need to learn the F-Schedule. Finally, I think more professional
pilots will be willing to participate in local contests because we will have
more competition at the FAI-F3A level. I think if we do this could be fun
that is the general agreement.
Regards,
--
Vicente "Vince" Bortone
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "John Fuqua" <johnfuqua at embarqmail.com>
I have been following this discussion with some relutance to jump
in. As a current Masters pilot and old time F3A flyer I to once pushed to
have the Master schedule be the P schedule. But you guys need to look at
what FAI has done to the P schedule. Here is link to the F3A rules.
http://www.fai.org/aeromodelling/documents/sc4
FAI has reduced the total maneuvers to 19 including a non scored
takeoff and landing. AMA Master is 23 including a scored takeoff and
landing.
Going to FAI would certainly speed things up (which is what FAI
intended for large contests like WC to speed up the prelims and get to the
real contest).
Not sure this is what AMA/NSRCA membership wants for a destination
class.
John
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Del Rykert
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 7:14 AM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?
Hi Dave..
I never saw anyone suggesting to do away with the Masters class.. I
have thought of another restriction/factor. Some of the FAI maneuvers
require a specific designed plane to do them well. If you don't have such an
aircraft in your stable you can be looking at a prohibitive change to switch
to those type of planes or live with the self imposed handicap. Granted,
some of the best can make a good showing in FAI type maneuvers but when
needing the 1 point advantage in a high K-Factor maneuver it does drive the
contestants to seek the best sled that works for them.
A good friend pointed out something I had lost sight of once. He
acquired a newer designed airplane to his stable that performed the
maneuvers he was flying so much easier. The design choice alone was raising
his scores by almost 1 point per maneuver. With only a little bit of
practice with new plane. He never appreciated the handicap he self imposed
until having better equipment. Heck.. I still have coreless servos and not a
digital do I own.. How far behind am I? LOL.
Del
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Burton
To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F at locals?
Del, I've never advocated doing away with the Master's class. I
only suggested adopting the most current FAI P maneuver schedule and fly
Master's as a separate class as we do today. Masters pilots would not be
required to advance to the FAI class unless they chose to do so. Seems to me
like it solves several problems. It allows a CD to have more flexibility in
arranging flight lines, a larger pool of knowledgeable judges, eliminates
the need for NSRCA (or others) to come up with a new schedule periodically
for the Masters Class. I don't think there is any difference in the
difficulty level of the P schedule and the Masters schedule today and would
not require any greater skill level than Masters does today IMO.
Dave Burton
From: Del Rykert [mailto:drykert2 at rochester.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 7:09 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F at locals?
Hi Dave
I'm not trying to imply that I have the correct answer to that
question. Not all people that advance through the AMA classes have the
desire or deep pockets to handle being competitive at the FAI level. Some
Master fliers in the past have told me the time commitment is high to be
competitive in FAI class. Higher than they can accept. That may be the
biggest reason. Not certain. But they do enjoy the difficulty and challenge
of flying masters and if told they had to move to FAI or if pointed out and
made to move up to FAI some would choose to leave. I see it as part of the
dues some are willing to commit to play. Some drop out after making it to
intermediate. Others after reaching advanced. Some have stayed and still fly
those classes but real! ize the y don't have the time, desire, money, to
move up and be challenging or at least make a decent showing they can accept
for themselves. I believe the competitive factor varies with us all and what
we are willing to commit to fly pattern.
I'm even suspect their are other issues that escape us and why
they are happy to fly Masters.
Del
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Burton
To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F at locals?
Del, what's the difference between " FAI type" schedules and
"Masters schedules"? You are correct about previous proposals not being
accepted. I have submitted a rules change twice for Masters to fly the P
schedule and it was defeated both times. Won't do that again, but I never
understood the opposition to it.
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Del Rykert
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 3:24 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F at locals?
So it would be acceptable to you to drive some away from pattern
as it has been clearly stated that some Master fliers by choice do not want
to fly FAI type schedules. It has been voted on with surveys and discussed
on this list in the past to not use that approach.
Del
----- Original Message -----
From: vicenterc at comcast.net
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F at locals?
I believe that FAI rules states that it is required more than
2 days event to fly F schedule. I am sure that someone out there is going
to be able to find if I am correct or not. Of course, we can use the AMA
rules and the CD can override this if he announces the change with time.
I agree that in Masters we should fly the current P schedule.
This will make a natural transition when moving Masters to F3A. The rules
should be changed to make the F3A class the final destination of AMA
classes. In other worlds, Masters should not be the final destination as
it is now.
--
Vicente "Vince" Bortone
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Tony" <tony at radiosouthrc.com>
Those are the very reasons that I stopped flying FAI. The
FAI rules state that the F patterns are for Regional, National and
International events, and are not designed to be flown at a local contest=
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