[NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?

Sun Feb 3 12:47:21 AKST 2008

Sorry Doug, that makes too much sense and follows the basis of the way
pattern is supposed to be. That's unacceptable...lol.

8.2.5. There is no mandatory advancement into FAI from the Masters class.
Contestants may enter their current AMA class or the FAI class at any
contest but not both.

If a pilot does not like the way FAI is flown, he does not have to fly it.
An Expert class seems like a logical "solution" , but I believe it has been
shot down many times before. Wouldn't this be a great way to get the one's
who want more of a challenge than Masters, but don't want to fly F, a class
of their own? It could even be an "FAI type" of class where Masters is still
the highest class to advance into but pilots can jump into and out of Expert
at any time. Establish a rule, written or not, that the pattern can not have
any integrated rolling loops or circles. This would allow the FAI pilots to
continue to fly FAI, not just half of it. Masters and Expert pilots could
judge FAI, FAI and Expert judge Masters, FAI and Masters judge Expert.

Sportsman- gets feet wet
Intermediate- likes wet feet
Advanced- ready to learn more
Masters- ready to fly more of what was learned
*Expert- the imaginary perfect in-between class
FAI- wants to be challenged beyond what was learned

I really hope that here locally (D3) we don't do away with the F sequence.
But if that is what the majority decide is best for the class, so be it. I
know of 4 pilots that want to continue to fly F, and they already compete in
FAI.
Regards,
Jason
www.jasonshulman.com
www.shulmanaviation.com
www.composite-arf.com

  -----Original Message-----
  From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Doug Cronkhite
  Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 4:14 PM
  To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?

  Actually, I think the solution is to just decide once and for all that
Masters will not be the training ground for FAI and make the Masters
sequence the destination difficulty. I suspect that’s actually been done
several times and people just keep trying to change it.

  If people want to fly FAI, then they have to just deal with the problems
that go along with it. No more complaining that the jump from Masters to FAI
is too hard or they don’t have the right airplane, because well.. too bad.

  Seems like this topic goes around the list AT LEAST once a year.

  From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
vicenterc at comcast.net
  Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 12:43 PM
  To: NSRCA Mailing List; NSRCA Mailing List
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?

  Jason,

  I agree.  Another solution is get the Master class the level that was 8-10
years ago.  It was between Advanced and FAI-F3A.  It was natural for pilots
wining Masters to move to FAI and not like we see now more moving from F3A
to Masters.  It is clear to me that the new Master schedule is equal or
harder than the new P schedule.

  --
  Vicente "Vince" Bortone

    -------------- Original message --------------
    From: "JShulman" <jshulman at cfl.rr.com>

    So if FAI pilots, that are flying FAI now, want to fly FAI (P and F),
and Masters pilots, that are flying Masters now, want to fly Masters, what
are we really "discussing"? Are we looking for a middle class to call
Masters + for the guys that want to fly P and not F or Masters? Sounds like
the addition of an Expert class in AMA to give the fliers in Masters, that
want a P type of sequence, a place to go?

     Regards,
    Jason
    www.jasonshulman.com
    www.shulmanaviation.com
    www.composite-arf.com

              -------------- Original message --------------
              From: "John Fuqua" <johnfuqua at embarqmail.com>

              I have been following this discussion with some relutance to j
ump in.  As a current Masters pilot and old time F3A flyer I to once pushed
to have the Master schedule be the P schedule.  But you guys need to look at
what FAI has done to the P schedule.  Here is link to the F3A rules.
http://www.fai.org/aeromodelling/documents/sc4

              FAI has reduced the total maneuvers to 19 including a non
scored takeoff and landing.   AMA Master is 23 including a scored takeoff
and landing.

              Going to FAI would certainly speed things up (which is what
FAI intended for large contests like WC to speed up the prelims and get to
the real contest).

              Not sure this is what AMA/NSRCA membership wants for a
destination class.

              John

------------------------------------------------------------------

              From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Del Rykert
              Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 7:14 AM
              To: NSRCA Mailing List
              Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing
Masters?

              Hi Dave..

              I never saw anyone suggesting to do away with the Masters
class.. I have thought of another restriction/factor. Some of the FAI
maneuvers require a specific designed plane to do them well. If you don't
have such an aircraft in your stable you can be looking at a prohibitive
change to switch to those type of planes or live with the self imposed
handicap. Granted, some of the best can make a good showing in FAI type
maneuvers but when needing the 1 point advantage in a high K-Factor maneuver
it does drive the contestants to seek the best sled that works for them.

              A good friend pointed out something I had lost sight of once.
He acquired a newer designed airplane to his stable that performed the
maneuvers he was flying so much easier. The design choice alone was raising
his scores by almost 1 point per maneuver. With only a little bit of
practice with new plane. He never appreciated the handicap he self imposed
until having better equipment. Heck.. I still have coreless servos and not a
digital do I own..  How far behind am I? LOL.

                  Del

                ----- Original Message -----

                From: Dave Burton

                To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'

                Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 7:33 PM

                Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F at locals?

                Del, I’ve never advocated doing away with the Master’s
class. I only suggested adopting the most current FAI P maneuver schedule
and fly Master’s as a separate class as we do today. Masters pilots would
not be required to advance to the FAI class unless they chose to do so.
Seems to me like it solves several problems. It allows a CD to have more
flexibility in arranging flight lines, a larger pool of knowledgeable
judges, eliminates the need for NSRCA (or others) to come up with a new
schedule periodically for the Masters Class. I don’t think there is any
difference in the difficulty level of the P schedule and the Masters
schedule today and would not require any greater skill level than Masters
does today IMO.

                Dave Burton

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