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<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Sorry Doug,
that makes too much sense and follows the basis of the way pattern is supposed
to be. That's unacceptable...lol.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><STRONG>8.2.5.</STRONG> <EM>There is no mandatory<SPAN
class=090392021-03022008> </SPAN>advancement into FAI from the Masters
class.<SPAN class=090392021-03022008> </SPAN>Contestants may enter their current
AMA class<SPAN class=090392021-03022008> </SPAN>or the FAI class at<SPAN
class=090392021-03022008> </SPAN><SPAN class=090392021-03022008>a</SPAN>ny
contest but not both.</EM></FONT></DIV></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>If a pilot
does not like the way FAI is flown, he does not have to fly it. An Expert class
seems like a logical "solution" , but I believe it has been shot down many times
before. Wouldn't this be a great way to get the one's who want more of a
challenge than Masters, but don't want to fly F, a class of their own? It could
even be an "FAI type" of class where Masters is still the highest class to
advance into but pilots can jump into and out of Expert at any time.
Establish a rule, written or not, that the pattern can not have any integrated
rolling loops or circles. This would allow the FAI pilots to continue to fly
FAI, not just half of it. Masters and Expert pilots could judge FAI, FAI and
Expert judge Masters, FAI and Masters judge Expert.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Sportsman-
gets feet wet</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Intermediate-
likes wet feet</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Advanced-
ready to learn more</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Masters- ready to fly more of what was
learned</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>*Expert- the
imaginary perfect in-between class </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>FAI- wants to
be challenged beyond what was learned</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>I really
hope that here locally (D3) we don't do away with the F sequence. But if that is
what the majority decide is best for the class, so be it. I know of 4 pilots
that want to continue to fly F, and they already compete in
FAI.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<P><FONT
size=2>Regards,<BR>Jason<BR>www.jasonshulman.com<BR>www.shulmanaviation.com<BR>www.composite-arf.com</FONT>
</P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Doug
Cronkhite<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 03, 2008 4:14 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
'NSRCA Mailing List'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic
to killing Masters?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Actually,
I think the solution is to just decide once and for all that Masters will not
be the training ground for FAI and make the Masters sequence the destination
difficulty. I suspect that’s actually been done several times and people just
keep trying to change it.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">If
people want to fly FAI, then they have to just deal with the problems that go
along with it. No more complaining that the jump from Masters to FAI is too
hard or they don’t have the right airplane, because well.. too bad.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Seems
like this topic goes around the list AT LEAST once a
year.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>vicenterc@comcast.net<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 03, 2008 12:43
PM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA Mailing List; NSRCA Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing
Masters?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Jason,<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>I agree. Another solution is get the Master class the
level that was 8-10 years ago. It was between Advanced and
FAI-F3A. It was natural for pilots wining Masters to move to FAI and not
like we see now more moving from F3A to Masters. It is clear to me that
the new Master schedule is equal or harder than the new P schedule.
<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>--<BR>Vicente "Vince" Bortone<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal>-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From:
"JShulman" <jshulman@cfl.rr.com> <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">So if FAI pilots,
that are flying FAI now, want to fly FAI (P and F), and Masters pilots, that
are flying Masters now, want to fly Masters, what are we really
"discussing"? Are we looking for a middle class to call Masters + for the
guys that want to fly P and not F or Masters? Sounds like the addition of an
Expert class in AMA to give the fliers in Masters, that want a P type
of sequence, a place to go? </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Regards,<BR>Jason<BR>www.jasonshulman.com<BR>www.shulmanaviation.com<BR>www.composite-arf.com</SPAN>
<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><BLOCKQUOTE
style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal>-------------- Original message --------------
<BR>From: "John Fuqua" <johnfuqua@embarqmail.com>
<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=ec791490514-03022008><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I
have been following this discussion with some relutance to jump
in. As a current Masters pilot and old time F3A flyer I to
once pushed to have the Master schedule be the P schedule.
But you guys need to look at what FAI has done to the P
schedule. Here is link to the F3A rules. <A
href="http://www.fai.org/aeromodelling/documents/sc4"
target=_blank>http://www.fai.org/aeromodelling/documents/sc4</A>
</SPAN></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=ec791490514-03022008><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">FAI
has reduced the total maneuvers to 19 including a non scored
takeoff and landing. AMA Master is 23 including a
scored takeoff and landing. </SPAN></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=ec791490514-03022008><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Going
to FAI would certainly speed things up (which is what FAI intended
for large contests like WC to speed up the prelims and get to the
real contest).</SPAN></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=ec791490514-03022008><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Not
sure this is what AMA/NSRCA membership wants for a
destination class.</SPAN></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=ec791490514-03022008><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">John</SPAN></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center>
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>Del Rykert<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 03, 2008 7:14
AM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing
Masters?</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Hi
Dave..</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I
never saw anyone suggesting to do away with the Masters
class.. I have thought of another restriction/factor. Some of the
FAI maneuvers require a specific designed plane to do them well.
If you don't have such an aircraft in your stable you can be
looking at a prohibitive change to switch to those type of planes
or live with the self imposed handicap. Granted, some of the best
can make a good showing in FAI type maneuvers but when needing the
1 point advantage in a high K-Factor maneuver it does drive
the contestants to seek the best sled that works for them.
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">A
good friend pointed out something I had lost sight of once.
He acquired a newer designed airplane to his stable
that performed the maneuvers he was flying so much easier.
The design choice alone was raising his scores by almost 1 point
per maneuver. With only a little bit of practice with new plane.
He never appreciated the handicap he self imposed
until having better equipment. Heck.. I still have coreless
servos and not a digital do I own.. How far behind am I?
LOL. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">
Del</SPAN> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">-----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <A
title=burtona@atmc.net href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">Dave
Burton</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us">'NSRCA Mailing
List'</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">
Saturday, February 02, 2008 7:33 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] F at locals?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecmsonormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Del,
I’ve never advocated doing away with the Master’s class. I only
suggested adopting the most current FAI P maneuver schedule and
fly Master’s as a separate class as we do today. Masters pilots
would not be required to advance to the FAI class unless they
chose to do so. Seems to me like it solves several problems. It
allows a CD to have more flexibility in arranging flight lines,
a larger pool of knowledgeable judges, eliminates the need for
NSRCA (or others) to come up with a new schedule periodically
for the Masters Class. I don’t think there is any difference in
the difficulty level of the P schedule and the Masters schedule
today and would not require any greater skill level than Masters
does today IMO. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecmsonormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Dave
Burton</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P
class=ecmsonormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>