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<DIV><SPAN class=406451623-10042008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Thanks
for all the input everyone. I have purchased the TP1010 with the
210 Balancer and have researched the crap out of the setup that I have. I
agree that proper procedures are important as with the use of any type of
equipment. The lipo Sack was something I saw at the local hobby
store. This got me thinking about the the whole safety issue again.
I am new to all this LIPO stuff and find the technology very exciting and I
thank people like Chad for their experience and being pioneers. This makes
the learning curve for people like me easier to take.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406451623-10042008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406451623-10042008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Thanks
again,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=406451623-10042008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Walter</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>James
Oddino<BR><B>Sent:</B> April 10, 2008 4:54 PM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA Mailing
List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lipo
Sacks<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>I second or third or whatever, - good equipment and
procedures make them as safe as NiCds.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Jim O</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>On Apr 10, 2008, at 3:20 PM, chris moon wrote:<BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 18px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0">
<DIV class=hmmessage style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><SPAN
text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">Mike, I agree you are absolutely
correct. Early adopters were pretty much on their own and ended up
with a lot of bad results until the modeling public created their own
knowledge base on this stuff. Manufacturers seemed to say here you go
guys - try these new fangled batteries out for us in your high draw
applications and let us know if they work. R/C guys were familiar with
ni-cad batteries which are very benign by comparison to big lipos and
figured they were dealing with a similar animal as far as durability and
ability to withstand abuse. Past problems were sure inevitable since
the knowledge base and safer equipment did not exist. I just think
those running around today implying that you need a concrete lined bomb
resistant barrel and flame retardant suit on in order to handle these
batteries are just misinformed about how safe these things CAN BE if handled
properly. When they point to incidents that happened when these first
came out as evidence, it's just not a valid comparison. I will give
them that if you want to buy cheapie EBay lipos of unknown manufacture and
questionable quality of construction, there would be a higher risk to using
these batteries and I would be more wary of them during charge or
discharge.<BR><BR>Now about the FAA....where do I start<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR><BR>Chris<BR><BR>Mike Hester
wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:001a01c89b2b$d8e03350$0202a8c0@Sanity type="cite">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>My 2 cents....not an arguement by any means, just
another angle.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>The problem with lipos is exactly what you
mentioned. With a twist.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>They simply introduced them to market without enough
research and development for our specific application. you mention proper
equipment, but back then there really wasn't any proper equipment. And
until you see the results of what those things CAN do, a normal average
guy can easily get lazy and careless. Well guess what
happened?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Back then there was no real balancing. no good
chargers capable of properly keeping the packs happy without a LOT of user
experience and research on his own.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I'm talking about the first year or so that Li-ions
and lipos were really brought to our market. This is the time where most
of the horror stories are based. I was semi-involved in one, but I can
tell you with a fair bit of certainty that it was not user error. it was
simply in my opinion, and in a lot of others, a bad design coupled with
possibly shoddy manufacturing.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>However...nowadays? Pffffft. take a few simple
precautions, know what you're doing, the info is out there and the
equipment to support it. just like spinning props, gasoline, nicads, you
name it. Safety technology like FAA regs (which I'm sure you know all too
well LOL) are written in blood. Yep there have been fires, lots. But in
general nowadays if you hear about something like that, it was probably
user error. In the beginning, it was a whole different kettle of
fish.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>heck I have lithiums in everything I own except my
starter for my YS. And that will probably change this year! They are as
safe as anything else now because we now have the proper equipment and
safety precautions to make it that way. if they had waited one more year,
this might be a non issue.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>-Mike</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial"><B>From:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
title=cjm767driver@hotmail.com href="mailto:cjm767driver@hotmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">chris moon</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A title=chad@f3acanada.org
href="mailto:chad@f3acanada.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">chad@f3acanada.org</A><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>;<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Thursday, April 10, 2008 11:54
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lipo
Sacks</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><SPAN text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">Walter,<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>I'm with Chad on this.<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>The key is to have good
equipment that will monitor the batteries and automatically shut down if
there is a problem. Too many sensational stories on the internet about
some battery fire etc have a lot of unknowns in their stories. Have you
ever seen one where they said "it was my fault, I did XYZ that I should
not have done"? No, everyone says, wow it just blew up - then the
marketing guys come out with a safety product to fix a problem that
probably never would exist with good equipment and charging techniques.
Why don't we have bunkers and sacks for cans of gasoline? Is there not a
chance that it could explode too? We know that if we goof around
carelessly with gasoline, it will go boom - so we are careful. Same with
lipos.<BR>I could be wrong here, but I too have hundreds of charges on
big lipos and have never had any issue. The key is just be careful and
check your charge settings and use good equipment with safety cut offs.
Can it hurt to use these bunkers and sacks, of course not. They give you
another layer of protection but I really don't think they are that
necessary.<BR>Sorry, but I really think the hype is over done with
lipos.<BR><BR>Chris<BR><BR>PS - no more coffee for me today - I better
go fly and relax some<BR><BR><BR>Chad Northeast wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:d0fde1d9302a9.47fddb1e@shaw.ca
type="cite">Walter<BR><BR>The only safe way to charge lipos is to
ensure you have a safe charger that monitors cell voltages like the TP
1010, or the Schulze's. Or use a balancer like the Flightpower etc
that tie into the charge line. This way if anything goes screwy with
the charge they shut it down, lipos don't light on fire for no reason,
its usually because you overcharged them and they got hot and burst.
Or you are charging a damaged pack, and usually common sense will tell
you that is not a good idea.<BR><BR>ALWAYS babysit the charge, forget
bunkers, sacks etc. if you monitor the charge there is no need for
these because you will always be aware of the state of the packs as
they are charging. In my opinion using sacks etc. is a band aid for
unsafe charging practices. I am sure someone will flame me for this
but I have been charging these big packs for 4 years, I must have
1000's of charges behind me and "touch wood" I have never had a single
issue, but I watch my chargers. In the early days before we had all
this fancy monitoring stuff I had to pull packs off chargers because
things were going bad.<BR><BR>Chad<BR><BR>----- Original Message
-----<BR>From: Walter Nasse<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:wwnasse@figment.ca"
moz-do-not-send="true"><WWNASSE@FIGMENT.CA></WWNASSE@FIGMENT.CA></A><BR>Date:
Wednesday, April 9, 2008 9:09 pm<BR>Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Lipo
Sacks<BR>To: NSRCA Mailing List<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG></NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG></A><BR><BR>>
BlankDoes anyone use the Lipo Sack for charging and transporting<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>>
batterypacks?<BR>><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> What other
alternatives are there? Ammo Boxes? Flour Tins?<BR>><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> Thanks,<BR>><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> Walter<BR>><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> No virus found in
this outgoing message.<BR>> Checked by AVG.<BR>> Version:
7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.10/1367 - Release<SPAN
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