[NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.

[Fred Huber]

you can't run statistical analysis on just one round of judging.  Its impossible

All you can have is a comparison of however many judges were judging that round.  You can't prove any trend.

You can only play mathematical mumbo jumbo and make it look like statistics... when its total GARBAGE.

Sorry... the games with statistics makes it look fisheyer to me than if they hadn't been played.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: rcmaster199 at aol.com 
  To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org 
  Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 10:16 PM
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.


  The NSRCA was not being run by stupid people last year. These folks are all thoughtful and intelligent. If there was no inappropriate scoring going on, it would have come out during the statistical analysis of the scores. 

  As far as it being a clear message to judge badly....don't think that's true. It will be a fair contest with proper scores assessed. To think otherwise is like slapping all the good judges in this game in the face.

  Matt Kebabjian


  -----Original Message-----
  From: Leonard Rudy 
  To: NSRCA Mailing List 
  Sent: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 7:47 pm
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.


  John,
   
       The conflict may have blossomed like a Hockey Game Conflict, but in the NHL
  those "with the power" hear both sides and let each side present their case before
  the powers to be assign penalties.  After the penalties are imposed, the player or 
  individual still has the right to appeal the decision.
       You say Eric should take whatever the powers to be want and don't make any
  noise or waves.
       This is a clear message to others who will be judging at meets in the future.  DO NOT GIVE THE GOOD OLD BOYS GROUP any low or bad scores or you may be on the receiving end of some form of penalty that you will not like.

  Len Rudy
    "Life is easier if you learn to plow around the stumps" or in other words, do not
  hand out low scores to the Good Old Boys or you will pay dearly for it one way or
  another. 

  Fred Huber <fhhuber at clearwire.net> wrote:
    The penalty does not appear appropriate...

    It also sounds like it was not applied in a manner consistant with the rules system.
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: John Ferrell 
      To: Don Ramsey ; NSRCA Mailing List 
      Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:12 AM
      Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.


      I have the good fortune to not be involved in this dispute. I am only aware of the conflict.

      Not being very good at staying out of arguments, I offer the following observations:
      A heated difference of opinions occurred.
      Every one involved is considered a valuable asset to the Pattern Game.
      Things were said that should not have been said.
      Every one thinks they are right.
      There was probably at least one (or may be several) bad call(s) by some one.

      The conflict blossomed like a Hockey Game Conflict and the net result was those with the power and responsibility treated it like a Hockey Game Conflict! A serious "time out" was assigned to the individual at the focal point of the conflict. It was their duty to put the problem on ice. 

      The expectations of the rest of us who value the game and its players is that right or wrong the referee's call must be honored. The referee has the power to impose further penalties if the individual continues to make waves. Right or wrong, this is the was disputes are handled in the world of competition. 

      If the individual was drawn into the conflict by goading it is still he who gets the penalty.

      Conflict resolution is not something that is natural to the human condition. Conflict is.

      Eric needs to take the penalty and get on with things.Those in power need to accept that the penalty has been applied and to continue the game.

      WE ALL need to be aware that we either play nice or get sent to the showers! 

      Another factor to consider is that the higher profile one achieves in this sport the greater the need to hold that individual to higher standards.
      Eric is certainly a "high profile" player.

      John Ferrell    W8CCW
      "Life is easier if you learn to plow 
             around the stumps"
      http://DixieNC.US

        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Don Ramsey 
        To: NSRCA Mailing List 
        Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 7:32 PM
        Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.


        I would like to thank Eric for the nice complement in his comment, "To circumvent this conflict of interest problem and to keep the Nationals above reproach, I steeped out of line and asked Don Ramsey to independently choose the judges, Dave could not refuse this method, but I will tell you that he got extremely mad at me for doing it."

        I must respond that for good or bad I've been choosing the finals judges for many years.  I started that process when Jeff Hill was Event Director.  It must also be stated that I've never had any pressure of any kind from contest management regarding who I choose to judge.  I try to pick the best candidates and rotate those so no single judge can influence the outcome extradionarly.

        Don



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