[NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.

Tue Jun 26 04:45:55 AKDT 2007

The board may honestly think there was biased judging.  Apparently they were
persuaded by the arguments of those who received the downgraded scores and
their supporters.  But was the accused judge given a fair hearing?  I'm not
convinced he was. Smart people can make mistakes

And it seems to me a more appropriate punishment might have been a public
censure or warning, rather than a two year banning.

Why didn't the board advise the membership of this punishment?  .

Jerry

  _____  

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Fred Huber
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 11:57 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.

you can't run statistical analysis on just one round of judging.  Its
impossible

All you can have is a comparison of however many judges were judging that
round.  You can't prove any trend.

You can only play mathematical mumbo jumbo and make it look like
statistics... when its total GARBAGE.

Sorry... the games with statistics makes it look fisheyer to me than if they
hadn't been played.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: rcmaster199 at aol.com 

To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org 

Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 10:16 PM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.

The NSRCA was not being run by stupid people last year. These folks are all
thoughtful and intelligent. If there was no inappropriate scoring going on,
it would have come out during the statistical analysis of the scores. 

As far as it being a clear message to judge badly....don't think that's
true. It will be a fair contest with proper scores assessed. To think
otherwise is like slapping all the good judges in this game in the face.

Matt Kebabjian

-----Original Message-----
From: Leonard Rudy 
To: NSRCA Mailing List 
Sent: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 7:47 pm
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.

John,

     The conflict may have blossomed like a Hockey Game Conflict, but in the
NHL

those "with the power" hear both sides and let each side present their case
before

the powers to be assign penalties.  After the penalties are imposed, the
player or 

individual still has the right to appeal the decision.

     You say Eric should take whatever the powers to be want and don't make
any

noise or waves.

     This is a clear message to others who will be judging at meets in the
future.  DO NOT GIVE THE GOOD OLD BOYS GROUP any low or bad scores or you
may be on the receiving end of some form of penalty that you will not like.

Len Rudy

  "Life is easier if you learn to plow around the stumps" or in other words,
do not

hand out low scores to the Good Old Boys or you will pay dearly for it one
way or

another. 

Fred Huber <fhhuber at clearwire.net> wrote:

The penalty does not appear appropriate...

It also sounds like it was not applied in a manner consistant with the rules
system.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: John <mailto:johnferrell at earthlink.net>  Ferrell 

To: Don Ramsey <mailto:donramsey at gmail.com>  ; NSRCA Mailing List
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:12 AM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.

I have the good fortune to not be involved in this dispute. I am only aware
of the conflict.

Not being very good at staying out of arguments, I offer the following
observations:

A heated difference of opinions occurred.

Every one involved is considered a valuable asset to the Pattern Game.

Things were said that should not have been said.

Every one thinks they are right.

There was probably at least one (or may be several) bad call(s) by some one.

The conflict blossomed like a Hockey Game Conflict and the net result was
those with the power and responsibility treated it like a Hockey Game
Conflict! A serious "time out" was assigned to the individual at the focal
point of the conflict. It was their duty to put the problem on ice. 

The expectations of the rest of us who value the game and its players is
that right or wrong the referee's call must be honored. The referee has the
power to impose further penalties if the individual continues to make waves.
Right or wrong, this is the was disputes are handled in the world of
competition. 

If the individual was drawn into the conflict by goading it is still he who
gets the penalty.

Conflict resolution is not something that is natural to the human condition.
Conflict is.

Eric needs to take the penalty and get on with things.Those in power need to
accept that the penalty has been applied and to continue the game.

WE ALL need to be aware that we either play nice or get sent to the showers!

Another factor to consider is that the higher profile one achieves in this
sport the greater the need to hold that individual to higher standards.

Eric is certainly a "high profile" player.

John Ferrell    W8CCW
"Life is easier if you learn to plow 
       around the stumps"
http://DixieNC.US <http://dixienc.us/> 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Don <mailto:don.ramsey at suddenlink.net>  Ramsey 

To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 7:32 PM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.

I would like to thank Eric for the nice complement in his comment, "To
circumvent this conflict of interest problem and to keep the Nationals above
reproach, I steeped out of line and asked Don Ramsey to independently choose
the judges, Dave could not refuse this method, but I will tell you that he
got extremely mad at me for doing it."

I must respond that for good or bad I've been choosing the finals judges for
many years.  I started that process when Jeff Hill was Event Director.  It
must also be stated that I've never had any pressure of any kind from
contest management regarding who I choose to judge.  I try to pick the best
candidates and rotate those so no single judge can influence the outcome
extradionarly.

Don

  _____  

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion 

  _____  

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.6/863 - Release Date: 6/23/2007
11:08 AM

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

  _____  

Building a website is a piece of cake. 
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48251/*http:/smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting/
?p=PASSPORTPLUS>  

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

  _____  

AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from
AOL at  <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000437> AOL.com.

  _____  

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion 

  _____  

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.6/863 - Release Date: 6/23/2007
11:08 AM

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20070626/c646a036/attachment-0001.html 