[NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for the futureofthePattern Event?
Derek Koopowitz
derekkoopowitz at gmail.com
Thu Jan 4 17:40:26 AKST 2007
Adrian Wong is in the process of building and writing a review of the World
Models Groovy 90 F3A which will have a YS 110 motor. The cost of the ARF
kit is $250 and I think the YS motor costs around $330 - not bad for a
smallish plane. The review should hopefully be published in an upcoming
K-Factor. I think that this is a wonderful and cheap way to get into
pattern with a plane that flies really well.
-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dean Pappas
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 11:22 AM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for the
futureofthePattern Event?
Thanks Jay,
That's why I posted to the list. Between the whole lot of us, we can get
some coverage.
Maybe it begs the issue of how to find newbies in the first place ( silly
grin ) but you might start at the regular club meeting/field.
Aren't there guys who watch and comment on your Pattern stuff, but don't get
into the event, in your local club?
Ask them if they think the entry barrier would change for them or someone
like them. They may be closer to that prospective newbie than you are.
They may come back and say that the practice discipline is why they will
never do it, and others may come back and say, "Wow smaller/cheaper planes
that fit in my car and my apartmenmt workshop! I'm in!"
I doubt you'll get such clear feedback, but you might get something.
later,
Dean
Dean Pappas
Sr. Design Engineer
Kodeos Communications
111 Corporate Blvd.
South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
(908) 222-7817 phone
(908) 222-2392 fax
d.pappas at kodeos.com
-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Jay Marshall
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 1:58 PM
To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for the future
ofthePattern Event?
Dean, you bring up a very good point. Most of us are seeped in the 2m venue.
We should really be talking to prospective new flyers. How do we do that?
-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dean Pappas
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 1:09 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for the future of
thePattern Event?
Hi Anthony,
Hi All,
Forget the implementational details for now. Stop trying to Engineer it, we
are doing Marketting.
If it helps to get in the right frame of mind, take a few stiff drinks and
bang your head on the workbench about ten times.
If we decide that it's worthwhile, then there are a zillion ways to make the
transition and to also grandfather existing planes for several years.
That's not the issue, at least not for now.
Changing the shape of the event: just for "something to do" would be an
awful waste of energy and needless turmoil.
We all dislike wasted energy, and I hope that we all agree that needless
turmoil is to be avoided.
I really want to focus on the basic question. Will making Pattern ships
smaller lead to increased future participation in the event?
If the answer isn't YES, then the grief probably ain't worth it.
So far, I am hearing a mixed bag, and a whole lot of talk about the
compromises we have all made when buying a vehicle.
I am there with you. (stow 'n go Grand caravan ... love it) But the choir is
already saved, and you all already fly Pattern.
Please go pester the newbies and the folks that you think are potential
Pattern newbies.
Will this make a difference as to whether they take the plunge?
Maybe the answer is that future participation won't be improved.
After we figure out whether future participation will or will not be helped,
then we can figure out what those of us already in the event would like.
That is an entirely separate question.
thanks for the help,
Dean
Dean Pappas
Sr. Design Engineer
Kodeos Communications
111 Corporate Blvd.
South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
(908) 222-7817 phone
(908) 222-2392 fax
d.pappas at kodeos.com
-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Anthony Romano
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 11:31 AM
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models bonus!?
Ok I will try it again. What about a 10 % score bonus for a 1.7m model? 1.5m
20%? Encourage the newbie or the guy on a budget and take away the perceived
advantage without causing obsolescence on current equipment.
Remember the biplane bonus at the TOC? Wasn't there a size bonus as well
waaayyy back?
Maybe it needs to be limited to sportsman or intermediate maybe not.
Anthony
>From: "Ed Miller" <edbon85 at charter.net>
>Reply-To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Smaller Models
>Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 08:12:11 -0500
>
>Yes, that is known as the BPA, Ballistic Pattern Association. So soon
>there will be 3 pattern venues to split the already dwindling pattern
>base :).
>Ed M.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Earl Haury" <ehaury at houston.rr.com>
>To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 6:40 AM
>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Smaller Models
>
>
>Interesting indeed - a local club is considering holding a "ole fashion"
>pattern contest this fall. The plan is to fly pre-turnaround pattern.
>Not sure exactly what the rules will be - but not SPA, as the intent is
>to allow '70's - '80's airplanes with piped engines & retracts (one
>member mentioned a Brushfire with piped Jett 90).
>
>I'm very comfortable with pattern as it is - however, there is a gap
>between current pattern and SPA that many seem interested in.
>
>Earl
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Koenig, Tom
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 7:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Smaller Models
>
>
> Guys-there are many of us that reminisce about the 'simpler' days of
>the 60 size models, even down here!
>
> I mentioned recently to some locals that I may hold a comp similar
>to your SPA stuff. I considered just allowing 60 size models as a max,
>never mind all the vintage rules etc.....I was SWAMPED with interest.
>There were all sorts of ex pattern pilots ready to show up. I think I'd
>have had 40 -50 possible entries!!!
>
> Not trying to stir things up-but it is interesting nonetheless.
>
> Tom
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Ron Lockhart
> Sent: Thursday, 4 January 2007 11:31 AM
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Smaller Models
>
>
> Yea, smaller has a number of advantages.
> A reduction in money, time, hassle factor, etc., of models is a
>thought toward increased participation.
> (Yea, I know the established pilots, and new pilots, are allowed
>to fly smaller models right now. But we have a
> lot of history that shows Dean's comment "Given that everyone
>will build or buy up to the maximum size limit" is true.
> How does that Dixie thing go?....<G>
>
> Ron Lockhart
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dean Pappas
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 4:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Header Brace
>
>
> Hi John,
> A year or so ago, I puit together an Excelleron 90 for a review
>and eventual sale to a newbie.
> Boy! Was it nice to drop a plane into the minivan in one piece!
> It was almost as good as when a Phoenix 8 would fit into the
>back of
>a
>hatchback Camaro in one piece.
>
> Given that everyone will build or buy up to the maximum size limit,
> is there a good enough reason to push on the rules bodies to
>legislate Pattern plane sizes back down?
> How about 1.6 or 1.7 meters square?
> Will this affect cost and complexity enough to have a beneficial
>effect on participation?
> Or am I just whistling Dixie?
>
> later,
> Dean
> Dean Pappas
> Sr. Design Engineer
> Kodeos Communications
> 111 Corporate Blvd.
> South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
> (908) 222-7817 phone
> (908) 222-2392 fax
> d.pappas at kodeos.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of John Ferrell
> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 3:07 PM
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Header Brace
>
>
> There seems to be a growing trend toward smaller airplanes
>among a lot of folks. I sure am enjoying the 90 size Boxer I bought
>from Ed Miller last summer. Less hassle to transport, assemble and fly.
>That means I can fly more!
>
> John Ferrell W8CCW
> "My Competition is not my enemy"
> http://DixieNC.US
>
>
>
>
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