[NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for thefutureofthePattern Event?
Dean Pappas
d.pappas at kodeos.com
Thu Jan 4 11:37:12 AKST 2007
Yeah, Ed.
It does sound hypocritical, doesn't it?
Dean Pappas
Sr. Design Engineer
Kodeos Communications
111 Corporate Blvd.
South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
(908) 222-7817 phone
(908) 222-2392 fax
d.pappas at kodeos.com
-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Ed Miller
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 3:33 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for
thefutureofthePattern Event?
I think the fact there are a slew of 60 to 90 sized pattern arfs readily
available at a sub $300 price tag will motivate newbies more than the
cumbersome size issue. If or when a newbie gets hooked, the size issue, or
lack there of, then is an added benefit. Problem is and we've all been
there is the question "what do I need to compete with". There you stand
touting all the good 60 to 90 size planes out there while trying to hide
your guppy 2M plane of the week............
Ed M.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean Pappas" <d.pappas at kodeos.com>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for the
futureofthePattern Event?
> Thanks Jay,
> That's why I posted to the list. Between the whole lot of us, we can get
> some coverage.
> Maybe it begs the issue of how to find newbies in the first place ( silly
> grin ) but you might start at the regular club meeting/field.
> Aren't there guys who watch and comment on your Pattern stuff, but don't
> get into the event, in your local club?
> Ask them if they think the entry barrier would change for them or someone
> like them. They may be closer to that prospective newbie than you are.
> They may come back and say that the practice discipline is why they will
> never do it,
> and others may come back and say, "Wow smaller/cheaper planes that fit in
> my car and my apartmenmt workshop! I'm in!"
> I doubt you'll get such clear feedback, but you might get something.
> later,
> Dean
>
>
> Dean Pappas
> Sr. Design Engineer
> Kodeos Communications
> 111 Corporate Blvd.
> South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
> (908) 222-7817 phone
> (908) 222-2392 fax
> d.pappas at kodeos.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Jay
> Marshall
> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 1:58 PM
> To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for the future
> ofthePattern Event?
>
>
> Dean, you bring up a very good point. Most of us are seeped in the 2m
> venue.
> We should really be talking to prospective new flyers. How do we do that?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dean Pappas
> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 1:09 PM
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for the future of
> thePattern Event?
>
> Hi Anthony,
> Hi All,
> Forget the implementational details for now. Stop trying to Engineer it,
> we
> are doing Marketting.
> If it helps to get in the right frame of mind, take a few stiff drinks and
> bang your head on the workbench about ten times.
> If we decide that it's worthwhile, then there are a zillion ways to make
> the
> transition and to also grandfather existing planes for several years.
> That's not the issue, at least not for now.
>
> Changing the shape of the event: just for "something to do" would be an
> awful waste of energy and needless turmoil.
> We all dislike wasted energy, and I hope that we all agree that needless
> turmoil is to be avoided.
> I really want to focus on the basic question. Will making Pattern ships
> smaller lead to increased future participation in the event?
> If the answer isn't YES, then the grief probably ain't worth it.
>
> So far, I am hearing a mixed bag, and a whole lot of talk about the
> compromises we have all made when buying a vehicle.
> I am there with you. (stow 'n go Grand caravan ... love it)
> But the choir is already saved, and you all already fly Pattern.
> Please go pester the newbies and the folks that you think are potential
> Pattern newbies.
> Will this make a difference as to whether they take the plunge?
> Maybe the answer is that future participation won't be improved.
>
> After we figure out whether future participation will or will not be
> helped,
> then we can figure out what those of us already in the event would like.
> That is an entirely separate question.
>
> thanks for the help,
> Dean
>
>
>
> Dean Pappas
> Sr. Design Engineer
> Kodeos Communications
> 111 Corporate Blvd.
> South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
> (908) 222-7817 phone
> (908) 222-2392 fax
> d.pappas at kodeos.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Anthony
> Romano
> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 11:31 AM
> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models bonus!?
>
>
> Ok I will try it again. What about a 10 % score bonus for a 1.7m model?
> 1.5m
>
> 20%? Encourage the newbie or the guy on a budget and take away the
> perceived
>
> advantage without causing obsolescence on current equipment.
> Remember the biplane bonus at the TOC? Wasn't there a size bonus as well
> waaayyy back?
>
> Maybe it needs to be limited to sportsman or intermediate maybe not.
>
> Anthony
>
>
>>From: "Ed Miller" <edbon85 at charter.net>
>>Reply-To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Smaller Models
>>Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 08:12:11 -0500
>>
>>Yes, that is known as the BPA, Ballistic Pattern Association. So soon
>>there
>>will be 3 pattern venues to split the already dwindling pattern base :).
>>Ed M.
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Earl Haury" <ehaury at houston.rr.com>
>>To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 6:40 AM
>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Smaller Models
>>
>>
>>Interesting indeed - a local club is considering holding a "ole fashion"
>>pattern contest this fall. The plan is to fly pre-turnaround pattern. Not
>>sure exactly what the rules will be - but not SPA, as the intent is to
>>allow
>>'70's - '80's airplanes with piped engines & retracts (one member
>>mentioned
>>a Brushfire with piped Jett 90).
>>
>>I'm very comfortable with pattern as it is - however, there is a gap
>>between
>>current pattern and SPA that many seem interested in.
>>
>>Earl
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Koenig, Tom
>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 7:16 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Smaller Models
>>
>>
>> Guys-there are many of us that reminisce about the 'simpler' days of
>> the
>>60 size models, even down here!
>>
>> I mentioned recently to some locals that I may hold a comp similar to
>>your
>>SPA stuff. I considered just allowing 60 size models as a max, never mind
>>all the vintage rules etc.....I was SWAMPED with interest. There were all
>>sorts of ex pattern pilots ready to show up. I think I'd have had 40 -50
>>possible entries!!!
>>
>> Not trying to stir things up-but it is interesting nonetheless.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Ron Lockhart
>> Sent: Thursday, 4 January 2007 11:31 AM
>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Smaller Models
>>
>>
>> Yea, smaller has a number of advantages.
>> A reduction in money, time, hassle factor, etc., of models is a
>>thought
>>toward increased participation.
>> (Yea, I know the established pilots, and new pilots, are allowed to
>>fly
>>smaller models right now. But we have a
>> lot of history that shows Dean's comment "Given that everyone will
>>build or buy up to the maximum size limit" is true.
>> How does that Dixie thing go?....<G>
>>
>> Ron Lockhart
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Dean Pappas
>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 4:51 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Header Brace
>>
>>
>> Hi John,
>> A year or so ago, I puit together an Excelleron 90 for a review and
>>eventual sale to a newbie.
>> Boy! Was it nice to drop a plane into the minivan in one piece!
>> It was almost as good as when a Phoenix 8 would fit into the back
>> of
>
>>a
>>hatchback Camaro in one piece.
>>
>> Given that everyone will build or buy up to the maximum size limit,
>> is there a good enough reason to push on the rules bodies to
>>legislate
>>Pattern plane sizes back down?
>> How about 1.6 or 1.7 meters square?
>> Will this affect cost and complexity enough to have a beneficial
>>effect on participation?
>> Or am I just whistling Dixie?
>>
>> later,
>> Dean
>> Dean Pappas
>> Sr. Design Engineer
>> Kodeos Communications
>> 111 Corporate Blvd.
>> South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
>> (908) 222-7817 phone
>> (908) 222-2392 fax
>> d.pappas at kodeos.com
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of John Ferrell
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 3:07 PM
>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Header Brace
>>
>>
>> There seems to be a growing trend toward smaller airplanes among
>> a
>>lot of folks. I sure am enjoying the 90 size Boxer I bought from Ed Miller
>>last summer. Less hassle to transport, assemble and fly. That means I can
>>fly more!
>>
>> John Ferrell W8CCW
>> "My Competition is not my enemy"
>> http://DixieNC.US
>>
>>
>>
>>
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