[NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for the futureofthePattern Event?
Adrien L Terrenoire
amad2terry at juno.com
Thu Jan 4 17:37:01 AKST 2007
How about a graduated increase in size??
All Sportsmen entrys must be .60, or less. .90 four stroke, with maybe a
weigh limit of 9 lb.
Intermediate can use up to 1.20 4 stroke, or maybe a .90 2 stroke. 10 lb
limit?
In advance, let it open up.
Some logic:
Smaller, less costly planes in lower classes. The Sportsman planes can be
used in Intermediate, and can be competitive for the first year or 2. A
loarger plane can be built that wil take them into the Advance class for
a year or so. Then the committment can be made to go "big time". All done
on a gradual basis. Electronicss could be moved from plane to plane. If
built light enough, the Int plane at 10 lb with a 1.20 could have a 1.40
dropped in for the move to Adv.
Terry T.
On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 15:32:34 -0500 "Ed Miller" <edbon85 at charter.net>
writes:
> I think the fact there are a slew of 60 to 90 sized pattern arfs
> readily
> available at a sub $300 price tag will motivate newbies more than
> the
> cumbersome size issue. If or when a newbie gets hooked, the size
> issue, or
> lack there of, then is an added benefit. Problem is and we've all
> been
> there is the question "what do I need to compete with". There you
> stand
> touting all the good 60 to 90 size planes out there while trying to
> hide
> your guppy 2M plane of the week............
> Ed M.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dean Pappas" <d.pappas at kodeos.com>
> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for the
> futureofthePattern Event?
>
>
> > Thanks Jay,
> > That's why I posted to the list. Between the whole lot of us, we
> can get
> > some coverage.
> > Maybe it begs the issue of how to find newbies in the first place
> ( silly
> > grin ) but you might start at the regular club meeting/field.
> > Aren't there guys who watch and comment on your Pattern stuff, but
> don't
> > get into the event, in your local club?
> > Ask them if they think the entry barrier would change for them or
> someone
> > like them. They may be closer to that prospective newbie than you
> are.
> > They may come back and say that the practice discipline is why
> they will
> > never do it,
> > and others may come back and say, "Wow smaller/cheaper planes that
> fit in
> > my car and my apartmenmt workshop! I'm in!"
> > I doubt you'll get such clear feedback, but you might get
> something.
> > later,
> > Dean
> >
> >
> > Dean Pappas
> > Sr. Design Engineer
> > Kodeos Communications
> > 111 Corporate Blvd.
> > South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
> > (908) 222-7817 phone
> > (908) 222-2392 fax
> > d.pappas at kodeos.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Jay
> > Marshall
> > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 1:58 PM
> > To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for the
> future
> > ofthePattern Event?
> >
> >
> > Dean, you bring up a very good point. Most of us are seeped in the
> 2m
> > venue.
> > We should really be talking to prospective new flyers. How do we
> do that?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
> Dean Pappas
> > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 1:09 PM
> > To: NSRCA Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for the
> future of
> > thePattern Event?
> >
> > Hi Anthony,
> > Hi All,
> > Forget the implementational details for now. Stop trying to
> Engineer it,
> > we
> > are doing Marketting.
> > If it helps to get in the right frame of mind, take a few stiff
> drinks and
> > bang your head on the workbench about ten times.
> > If we decide that it's worthwhile, then there are a zillion ways
> to make
> > the
> > transition and to also grandfather existing planes for several
> years.
> > That's not the issue, at least not for now.
> >
> > Changing the shape of the event: just for "something to do" would
> be an
> > awful waste of energy and needless turmoil.
> > We all dislike wasted energy, and I hope that we all agree that
> needless
> > turmoil is to be avoided.
> > I really want to focus on the basic question. Will making Pattern
> ships
> > smaller lead to increased future participation in the event?
> > If the answer isn't YES, then the grief probably ain't worth it.
> >
> > So far, I am hearing a mixed bag, and a whole lot of talk about
> the
> > compromises we have all made when buying a vehicle.
> > I am there with you. (stow 'n go Grand caravan ... love it)
> > But the choir is already saved, and you all already fly Pattern.
> > Please go pester the newbies and the folks that you think are
> potential
> > Pattern newbies.
> > Will this make a difference as to whether they take the plunge?
> > Maybe the answer is that future participation won't be improved.
> >
> > After we figure out whether future participation will or will not
> be
> > helped,
> > then we can figure out what those of us already in the event would
> like.
> > That is an entirely separate question.
> >
> > thanks for the help,
> > Dean
> >
> >
> >
> > Dean Pappas
> > Sr. Design Engineer
> > Kodeos Communications
> > 111 Corporate Blvd.
> > South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
> > (908) 222-7817 phone
> > (908) 222-2392 fax
> > d.pappas at kodeos.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of
> Anthony
> > Romano
> > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 11:31 AM
> > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models bonus!?
> >
> >
> > Ok I will try it again. What about a 10 % score bonus for a 1.7m
> model?
> > 1.5m
> >
> > 20%? Encourage the newbie or the guy on a budget and take away the
>
> > perceived
> >
> > advantage without causing obsolescence on current equipment.
> > Remember the biplane bonus at the TOC? Wasn't there a size bonus
> as well
> > waaayyy back?
> >
> > Maybe it needs to be limited to sportsman or intermediate maybe
> not.
> >
> > Anthony
> >
> >
> >>From: "Ed Miller" <edbon85 at charter.net>
> >>Reply-To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Smaller Models
> >>Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 08:12:11 -0500
> >>
> >>Yes, that is known as the BPA, Ballistic Pattern Association. So
> soon
> >>there
> >>will be 3 pattern venues to split the already dwindling pattern
> base :).
> >>Ed M.
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "Earl Haury" <ehaury at houston.rr.com>
> >>To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 6:40 AM
> >>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Smaller Models
> >>
> >>
> >>Interesting indeed - a local club is considering holding a "ole
> fashion"
> >>pattern contest this fall. The plan is to fly pre-turnaround
> pattern. Not
> >>sure exactly what the rules will be - but not SPA, as the intent
> is to
> >>allow
> >>'70's - '80's airplanes with piped engines & retracts (one member
>
> >>mentioned
> >>a Brushfire with piped Jett 90).
> >>
> >>I'm very comfortable with pattern as it is - however, there is a
> gap
> >>between
> >>current pattern and SPA that many seem interested in.
> >>
> >>Earl
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Koenig, Tom
> >> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 7:16 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Smaller Models
> >>
> >>
> >> Guys-there are many of us that reminisce about the 'simpler'
> days of
> >> the
> >>60 size models, even down here!
> >>
> >> I mentioned recently to some locals that I may hold a comp
> similar to
> >>your
> >>SPA stuff. I considered just allowing 60 size models as a max,
> never mind
> >>all the vintage rules etc.....I was SWAMPED with interest. There
> were all
> >>sorts of ex pattern pilots ready to show up. I think I'd have had
> 40 -50
> sible entries!!!
> >>
> >> Not trying to stir things up-but it is interesting
> nonetheless.
> >>
> >> Tom
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> >>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Ron
> Lockhart
> >> Sent: Thursday, 4 January 2007 11:31 AM
> >> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Smaller Models
> >>
> >>
> >> Yea, smaller has a number of advantages.
> >> A reduction in money, time, hassle factor, etc., of models
> is a
> >>thought
> >>toward increased participation.
> >> (Yea, I know the established pilots, and new pilots, are
> allowed to
> >>fly
> >>smaller models right now. But we have a
> >> lot of history that shows Dean's comment "Given that
> everyone will
> >>build or buy up to the maximum size limit" is true.
> >> How does that Dixie thing go?....<G>
> >>
> >> Ron Lockhart
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Dean Pappas
> >> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 4:51 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Header Brace
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi John,
> >> A year or so ago, I puit together an Excelleron 90 for a
> review and
> >>eventual sale to a newbie.
> >> Boy! Was it nice to drop a plane into the minivan in one
> piece!
> >> It was almost as good as when a Phoenix 8 would fit into
> the back
> >> of
> >
> >>a
> >>hatchback Camaro in one piece.
> >>
> >> Given that everyone will build or buy up to the maximum
> size limit,
> >> is there a good enough reason to push on the rules bodies
> to
> >>legislate
> >>Pattern plane sizes back down?
> >> How about 1.6 or 1.7 meters square?
> >> Will this affect cost and complexity enough to have a
> beneficial
> >>effect on participation?
> >> Or am I just whistling Dixie?
> >>
> >> later,
> >> Dean
> >> Dean Pappas
> >> Sr. Design Engineer
> >> Kodeos Communications
> >> 111 Corporate Blvd.
> >> South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
> >> (908) 222-7817 phone
> >> (908) 222-2392 fax
> >> d.pappas at kodeos.com
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> >>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of John
> Ferrell
> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 3:07 PM
> >> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Header Brace
> >>
> >>
> >> There seems to be a growing trend toward smaller
> airplanes among
> >> a
> >>lot of folks. I sure am enjoying the 90 size Boxer I bought from
> Ed Miller
> >>last summer. Less hassle to transport, assemble and fly. That
> means I can
> >>fly more!
> >>
> >> John Ferrell W8CCW
> >> "My Competition is not my enemy"
> >> http://DixieNC.US
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
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