[NSRCA-discussion] Gov'ment Job.......was: Re: Off topic
george w. kennie
geobet at gis.net
Fri Dec 14 10:25:02 AKST 2007
Speaking of the Strat, a long ago boyfriend of my Daughter's left a 60's vintage Strat at my house for a few months (this was back in the 70's) and every now and again I would pull it out and play it and after a while I discovered that I didn't like the action. Never could figure out what all the raves were about. I had a Birdland and wasn't all that cranked up over that either, but it was valuable. I traded it for a second hand Fender Rhodes keyboard which I ended up giving away. Lost a bundle on that fiasco.Speaking of Classicals and Electrics I currently own 2 electrified cutaway Classicals (I love the Cordoba) and I dont play classical, I play Jazzzzz !!!! Yeahhh !! "20's to 80's Standards. The stuff you guys are talking about AIN'T music. It's some kind of unregulated noise (now you know how old I am ). Even the lyrics don't rhyme. Where's the artistry in that??? [ That ought to start some kind of war ]
G.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tommy Scarmardo
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Gov'ment Job.......was: Re: Off topic
Please don't remind me of guitars I've owned over the years and should
have kept....'57 Tele with maple neck, '67 and '69 Stratacasters, '70 Jazzmaster,
'79 25/50 anniversary Les Paul, etc, etc.
Enough money there to retire on. I saw a '67 Strat for sale at Rockin' Robins
for $49,000 !!!
"george w. kennie" <geobet at gis.net> wrote:
That 335 is worth a fortune today.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dwayne Brown
To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Gov'ment Job.......was: Re: Off topic
I'm gonna listen to my ES335 thru my Princeton amp I bought in 1964 then maybe I'll plug into my Fender Dual Reverb with my PRS or my Les Paul Jr I bought in 1957. Tone!!! Dwayne
-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of wgalligan
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:17 AM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Gov'ment Job.......was: Re: Off topic
Once again... Gray bends the envelope on his vast infinite wealth of useful knowledge.
Thanks for that audio bit of brain food.... now back to my $99.00 12 Gauge practice amp. (Wishing that I had a full blown tube amp from the 70's)
WG...
----- Original Message -----
From: Gray E Fowler
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Gov'ment Job.......was: Re: Off topic
I have tried to stay out of this as it could become old guy vs young guy, but then again I am no longer young.....
As an ex muscian I have recorded about 25 original songs and the interesting thing is that my recording time frame spans the cross over of analog to digital, that is 1985 to about 1995.
Led Zeps "Whole Lotta Love" is not record groove bleed over, but is called tape print through. That's where a freshly recorded magnetic impression transfers through the back side of the tape onto a place it does not belong-one reel revolution. To alleviate this tapes are to be stored "tails out" which the recording engineer obviously forgot to do...in 1969. So that has to be the coolest recording accident of all time.
I have known many home listening "audiophiles" in my life, some I would call friends. I was always amazed at the money that they spent on their home systems that was at times more than what it would cost to put in a "studio" system. As a professional musician and a professional sound man, the entire idea of recording in a studio was to make your guitar or the drums sound like YOUR guitar, or your drums. When I stood in front of my Marshall tube amp cranked up to 11, I wanted that sound on my final product-be it a record or digital recording. (Pehaps I will discuss guitar tube amps and the reason for their existence at a later date). I cannot begin to explain how difficult that task actually is. I will say it is much easier now days.
Analog recoding studios really sounded good. 2" wide 24 track tape spinning at 30 inches per second. That is what it took to keep the tape noise level low and to get the most accurate reproduction AND each machine and tape brand had to be calibrated before each recording session to ensure accuracy. Remember, what you are listening to is what the muscian wants you to hear, so audiophiles and listeners do not even get a vote yet on sound quality.
The 2" tape 24 track "Master"changed my guitar sound a bit. Then that was mixed down to stereo 1/2 track 1/4" tape format called "Half Track Master". That change my guitar sound a bit more, but still okay. The Half Track Master then is sent to a pressing plant to make the actual vinyl record. First you had to find a pay an expert "Master-er" to get to vinyl. This guy held you and your recording by the Nards. Why? Because analog vinyl technolgy was so screwed up. The Half track master that sounded great in the recording studio had to be Re-equalized by this record master-er to compensate for his equipment and how he knew it would change your recording-that you just spent $5000 on. It also had to be compressed (musically not like MP3-more later) so it would not violate groove and needle physical capabilities. If the Master-man sucked or did not care, so did your record. If you were a big time rock star (I was not), then you could hire Bob Ludwig, and he would make 5-6 wax pressings so the musician could hear what he changed and choose what they liked best. Me I had to take what I could get. In reality very few muscians ever approved of their vinyl recordings because they sounded so different from what they put down in the studio.
Yet old audiophiles with their Harmonically distorted tube amps and super crappy damping factors, needles that once again change the sound and wear the grooves down, changing the sound, and worst of all "colored" speakers tailored so any fool got a decent balance of bass and highs, claim superiority-calling this "warmth".
Digital Mixers, with digital recording and digital media by far produce the truest reproduction of what the muscian intended. What I discovered when I recorded digital was that what used to sound "full-warm" was in fact much less accurate. The "full-warm" sound that was missing was harmonic crap that filled up the spaces in the mix. What you could then do with digital is add more musical parts to fill the gaps and you could hear all the detail. Listen to Led Zep records, then listen to a Led Zep CD which was taken straight from the Half Track stereo master. One thing that you will notice right away on CD is how much reverb is present on the CD that you cannot hear on a vinyl record. I used to think as I bought CDS that the CD has reverb added on top of the original recording. Not so, it is just that it is 2X louder because the vinyl cannot reproduce such a subtle sound.
Digital compression like MP3 .....is DATA compression that is uncompressed before it becomes ear capable analog. Records "Squashed" compressed music volume for needle physical reasons, Radio uses "infinite" volume compression-to appear louder than other stations and to keep from violating broadcast bandwidth-even worse....but hey, my brother thinks radio sounds great...he must be an audiophile.....
Also...On Monday I am going back to the recording studio..first time in 12 years. I am making the studio pull out and dust off their antique 1/2 track analog machine (an the studio had to calibrate it-as usual). I have about 10-11 songs that were mastered a on 1/2 track tape and guess what..I and going to burn some digital copies. My first album was so F-up by the vinyl record that I look forward to hearing what I actually recorded in 1985......
Merry Christmas Pattern dudes........
Gray Fowler
Senior Principal Chemical Engineer
Radomes and Specialty Apertures
Technical Staff Composites Engineering
Raytheon
Bob Richards <bob at toprudder.com>
Sent by: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
12/12/2007 08:41 PM
Please respond to
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To NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
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Subject Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Gov'ment Job.......was: Re: Off topic
IMHO, although the "warmth" of a tube amp is desireable to most people, it is, in fact, a type of distortion.
I have a collection of vinyl, but prefer to use CDs. Kinda hard to keep the needle from skipping while driving to work. :-)
Remember the one Led Zepplin song where the adjacent grooves "bled" over when the album was pressed? Never would have happened with digital. ;-)
Bob R.
twtaylor <twtaylor at ftc-i.net> wrote:
You've obviously never heard a good system then Matt. J
Vinyl is still MUCH better than any CD. Also one must have tubes for the warmth that transistors can never match.
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