[NSRCA-discussion] Gov'ment Job.......was: Re: Off topic

Thu Dec 13 14:56:05 AKST 2007

Yep, my 335 is of 1970's vintage.  I do have a Gibson L7 to try to make up
for it.  Dwayne

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tommy
Scarmardo
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 3:38 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Gov'ment Job.......was: Re: Off topic

Please don't remind me of guitars I've owned over the years and should

have kept....'57 Tele with maple neck, '67 and '69 Stratacasters, '70
Jazzmaster,

'79 25/50 anniversary Les Paul, etc, etc.

Enough money there to retire on. I saw a '67 Strat for sale at Rockin'
Robins

for $49,000  !!!

"george w. kennie" <geobet at gis.net> wrote:

That 335 is worth a fortune today.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Dwayne <mailto:dwaynenancy at suddenlink.net>  Brown 

To: 'NSRCA Mailing List' <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 11:51 AM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Gov'ment Job.......was: Re: Off topic

I'm gonna listen to my ES335 thru my Princeton amp I bought in 1964 then
maybe I'll plug into my Fender Dual Reverb with my PRS or my Les Paul Jr I
bought in 1957.  Tone!!!  Dwayne

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of wgalligan
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:17 AM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Gov'ment Job.......was: Re: Off topic

Once again... Gray bends the envelope on his vast infinite wealth of useful
knowledge.

Thanks for that audio bit of brain food.... now back to my $99.00 12 Gauge
practice amp.  (Wishing that I had a full blown tube amp  from the 70's)

WG...

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Gray E Fowler <mailto:gfowler at raytheon.com>  

To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:18 AM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Gov'ment Job.......was: Re: Off topic

I have tried to stay out of this as it could become old guy vs young guy,
but then again I am no longer young..... 

As an ex muscian I have recorded about 25 original songs and the interesting
thing is that my recording time frame spans the cross over of analog to
digital, that is 1985 to about 1995. 

Led Zeps "Whole Lotta Love" is not record groove bleed over, but is called
tape print through. That's where a freshly recorded magnetic impression
transfers through the back side of the tape onto a place it does not
belong-one reel revolution. To alleviate this tapes are to be stored "tails
out" which the recording engineer obviously forgot to do...in 1969. So that
has to be the coolest recording accident of all time. 

I have known many home listening "audiophiles" in my life, some I would call
friends. I was always amazed at the money that they spent on their home
systems that was at times more than what it would cost to put in a "studio"
system. As a professional musician and a professional sound man, the entire
idea of recording in a studio was to make your guitar or the drums sound
like YOUR guitar, or your drums. When I stood in front of my Marshall tube
amp cranked up to 11, I wanted that sound on my final product-be it a record
or digital recording. (Pehaps I will discuss guitar tube amps and the reason
for their existence at a later date). I cannot begin to explain how
difficult that task actually is. I will say it is much easier now days. 

Analog recoding studios really sounded good. 2" wide 24 track tape spinning
at 30 inches per second. That is what it took to keep the tape noise level
low and to get the most accurate reproduction AND each machine and tape
brand had to be calibrated before each recording session to ensure accuracy.
Remember, what you are listening to is what the muscian wants you to hear,
so audiophiles and listeners do not even get a vote yet on sound quality. 
The 2" tape 24 track  "Master"changed my guitar sound a bit. Then that was
mixed down to stereo 1/2 track 1/4" tape format called "Half Track Master".
That change my guitar sound a bit more, but still okay. The Half Track
Master then is sent to a pressing plant to make the actual vinyl record.
First you had to find a pay an expert "Master-er" to get to vinyl. This guy
held you and your recording by the Nards. Why? Because analog vinyl
technolgy was so screwed up. The Half track master that sounded great in the
recording studio had to be Re-equalized by this record master-er to
compensate for his equipment and how he knew it would change your
recording-that you just spent $5000 on. It also had to be compressed
(musically not like MP3-more later) so it would not violate groove and
needle physical capabilities. If the Master-man sucked or did not care, so
did your record. If you were a big time rock star (I was not), then you
could hire Bob Ludwig, and he would make 5-6 wax pressings so the musician
could hear what he changed and choose what they liked best. Me I had to take
what I could get. In reality very few muscians ever approved of their vinyl
recordings because they sounded so different from what they put down in the
studio. 
 Yet old audiophiles with their Harmonically distorted tube amps and super
crappy damping factors, needles that once again change the sound and wear
the grooves down, changing the sound, and worst of all "colored" speakers
tailored so any fool got a decent balance of bass and highs, claim
superiority-calling this "warmth". 

Digital Mixers, with digital recording and digital media by far produce the
truest reproduction of what the muscian intended. What I discovered when I
recorded digital was that what used to sound "full-warm" was in fact much
less accurate. The "full-warm" sound that was missing was harmonic crap that
filled up the spaces in the mix. What you could then do with digital is add
more musical parts to fill the gaps and you could hear all  the detail.
Listen to Led Zep records, then listen to a Led Zep CD which was taken
straight from the Half Track stereo master. One thing that you will notice
right away on CD is how much reverb is present on the CD that you cannot
hear on a vinyl record. I used to think as I bought CDS that the CD has
reverb added on top of the original recording. Not so, it is just that it is
2X louder because the vinyl cannot reproduce such a subtle sound. 

Digital compression like MP3 .....is DATA compression that is uncompressed
before it becomes ear capable analog. Records "Squashed" compressed music
volume for needle physical reasons, Radio uses "infinite" volume
compression-to appear louder than other stations and to keep from violating
broadcast bandwidth-even worse....but hey, my brother thinks radio sounds
great...he must be an audiophile..... 

Also...On Monday I am going back to the recording studio..first time in 12
years. I am making the studio pull out and dust off their antique 1/2 track
analog machine (an the studio had to calibrate it-as usual). I have about
10-11 songs that were mastered a on 1/2 track tape and guess what..I and
going to burn some digital copies. My first album was so F-up by the vinyl
record  that I look forward to hearing what I actually recorded in
1985...... 

Merry Christmas Pattern dudes........ 

Gray Fowler
Senior Principal Chemical Engineer
Radomes and Specialty Apertures
Technical Staff Composites Engineering
Raytheon 

Bob Richards <bob at toprudder.com> 
Sent by: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org 

12/12/2007 08:41 PM 

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Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Gov'ment Job.......was: Re:  Off topic

IMHO, although the "warmth" of a tube amp is desireable to most people, it
is, in fact, a type of distortion. 

I have a collection of vinyl, but prefer to use CDs. Kinda hard to keep the
needle from skipping while driving to work. :-) 

Remember the one Led Zepplin song where the adjacent grooves "bled" over
when the album was pressed? Never would have happened with digital. ;-) 

Bob R. 

twtaylor <twtaylor at ftc-i.net> wrote: 
You've obviously never heard a good system then Matt.  :-) 

Vinyl is still MUCH better than any CD. Also one must have tubes for the
warmth that transistors can never match. 
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