[NSRCA-discussion] We aren't behind the times.

Tue Aug 28 11:30:42 AKDT 2007

Yep I remember those days of Norm with his wife Kathy calling, in D1.. He 
could have crashed and still got points..lol

Scott 529
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <randy9004 at comcast.net>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] We aren't behind the times.

>A cheerleader can call for me anytime.
>
> Randy
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "J N Hiller" <jnhiller at earthlink.net>
>> Great, professional callers too.
>> Jim Hiller
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Jerry 
>> Stebbins
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 6:00 AM
>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] We aren't behind the times.
>>
>> Seems like we are flogging the dead horse for some other reason than the
>> "Spectators". TOC comparisons are a reach. Most "spectators" are other
>> contestants/helpers. Few wannabes come out unless they are working, and 
>> if
>> they have the pattern itch they would be there anyway. Those are they 
>> ones
>> we can talk to/explain/cultivate/ let fly after the contest!.
>> Maybe the old days of short shorts callers could be brought back by
>> developing and forming a set of touring callers--how about calling the
>> Dallas Cheerleaders and see if they would be interested. THAT would 
>> probably
>> increase our "Spectator" base. :) :)
>> Wonder what the underlying reason is for this thread-anyone willing to
>> fess-up?
>> Jerry
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: John Pavlick <mailto:jpavlick at idseng.com>
>> To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 1:00 AM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] We aren't behind the times.
>>
>> Uh, what are you guys talking about? Spectators at a Pattern contest? 
>> Where
>> are they? Do wives and girlfriends count?
>>
>> John Pavlick
>> http://www.idseng.com
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: John Gayer <mailto:jgghome at comcast.net>
>> To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:12 AM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] We aren't behind the times.
>>
>> Having a large scoreboard with names(maybe pictures of pilots with
>> airplanes) and raw scores would help. So would providing handouts on the
>> patterns and pattern in general.
>>
>> Not having been to an IMAC contest in years, are they doing better in
>> providing information to spectators?  Are they getting large crowds for 
>> the
>> unknowns and freestyles?
>> The TOC had a large scoreboard that was kept uptodate, as I recall, with 
>> raw
>> scores and handed out the patterns being flown.
>> Must be why they had such large crowds :-)
>> John
>>
>> Mark Atwood wrote:
>> To take that a step further...when was the last time you saw them 
>> televise
>> the Figure Skating compulsory rounds...which is basically what we 
>> fly...the
>> EXACT same routine.  They've dropped the "figures" portion of the
>> competition completely.
>>
>> But I still think it would be entertaining to see scores...though I agree 
>> it
>> is likely to create problems.
>>
>> -M
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/27/07 11:30 PM, "JShulman" <jshulman at cfl.rr.com>
>> <mailto:jshulman at cfl.rr.com>  wrote:
>> Has anyone else thought that pattern is just really boring? Lets face it, 
>> if
>> you don't enjoy precision flying, there isn't much that can be done to 
>> spice
>> it up. It's still the same sequences being flown flight after flight.
>>
>> As for the scoring real-time... the only one's that it would matter to 
>> would
>> be the one's participating in the contest. Not necessarily just the one's 
>> in
>> the class, but the one's that stay the extra day to watch. Until we throw 
>> in
>> some sort of freestyle or combat, it's just pattern. Who would watch 
>> figure
>> skating without music?
>> Regards,
>> Jason
>> www.jasonshulman.com <http://www.jasonshulman.com>
>> www.shulmanaviation.com <http://www.shulmanaviation.com>
>> www.composite-arf.com <http://www.composite-arf.com>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:   nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>   [
>> mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org%5D> On Behalf Of Lance 
>> Van
>> Nostrand
>> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 10:17 PM
>> To: NSRCA  Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the  times?
>>
>>
>> I'm willing to try things that would make pattern  more spectator 
>> friendly.
>> I think the reason the lone spectator talking  during a flight has such 
>> an
>> effect is because its a lone person and  talking loud enough that judges 
>> can
>> hear is rare.  If it became common  place we would soon tune it out and
>> spectators would be better able to follow  the contest.
>>
>>
>>
>> Your points are excellent.  In my area we  don't require judges to 
>> initial
>> their scoresheets.  I don'tunderstand  this and I always initial mine, 
>> but I
>> also sometimes put downgrade shorthand  next to my scores for pilots that
>> enjoy knowing why they got a certain  score.  The occasions that pilots 
>> have
>> approached me afterwards were  supportive and spiritbuilding.
>>
>>
>>
>> --Lance
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From:  Woodward, Jim <mailto:jim.woodward at baesystems.com>
>> <mailto:jim.woodward at baesystems.com>
>>
>> To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>
>> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 1:08  PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we  behind the times?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I heard a story  from this years nats where one of the Advanced 
>> competitors
>> that was in  contention flew a less-than-perfect maneuver, and another 
>> pilot
>> who was also  in contention (and watching) yelled out an inappropriate
>> remark.  I  think that audience input or influence is something we should
>> steer away  from for precision aerobatics.  We certainly do not need it 
>> to
>> be quiet  like for golf, but direct statements meant to be heard by the
>> judges are not  good.
>>
>>
>> Although slightly  off topic - what I do think we should do is post all 
>> raw
>> scores every flight  for every pilot (I think this is done for the WC). 
>> I
>> think this would  provide the following opportunities:
>> 1. The availability of the raw  scores would in itself represent and
>> INCREDIBLE judges training  tool.  Seasoned and new competitor alike 
>> could
>> watch flights  together, make comments and discuss, then go back later 
>> and
>> see if what  they thought they saw was in line with the scores for that
>> flight.   There is all kinds of opportunity here to facilitate judging
>> training (..  ideas welcome).
>> 2. Posting of raw scores would  allow "judges" to after-the-fact see how
>> they performed compared to their  judging partners.  There is all kinds 
>> of
>> good value that could come  from this.  Whether noted privately or 
>> discussed
>> between each other,  it is good from time to time to check yourself.
>> 3. Posting of raw scores would  help keep the honest man honest.  By 
>> posting
>> raw scores, I think  there would be a reduction of bias any way you cut 
>> it:
>> Santa-Clausing, Low-balling, "teams", regionality, or other bias' would 
>> be
>> removed/reduced if the person knew ahead of time that the judges scores
>> would be posted.
>> 4. And most importantly,  increased "transparency" in the system helps 
>> the
>> seasoned and new comer  alike understand the process of the contest,
>> scoring, and "how" the 1000,  900, or 800's came to be.  I believe that 
>> no
>> matter whom you are, you  want to leave a contest and feel like you (&
>> everyone) was dealt a  fair hand.  Transparency is the key to this.
>> 5. OK - last one - it takes  "scoring" which is a topic of much 
>> discussion
>> during and after a pattern  contest in case you haven't heard, away from 
>> a
>> shadowy discussion, and  brings to the open this topic which everyone is
>> already discussing.   This would do a lot to remove ammunition from the
>> conspiracy theorist and  such whom all of our districts have. 
>> Transparency
>> is good  J
>>
>>
>> I write none of  this from the sour-grapes perspective.  I love this 
>> stuff.
>> I  think the potential benefits from posting the raws would out weight 
>> the
>> potential bad, provide more transparency for the competitor and also 
>> provide
>> judges training.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jim  W.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>   _____
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>>
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>>
>>
>> From:   nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>   [
>> mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org%5D>  On Behalf Of 
>> JShulman
>> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 1:49  PM
>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we  behind the times?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Probably the best  reason not to have it...lol. It's bad enough when we
>> screw-up... I mean when  a pilot screws-up and you hear all the
>> OOOooooohhhhhhhhhhhh's from the  crowd. Now just imagine the uproar when
>> someone gets judged for a maneuver  that they are doing all wrong! Total
>> Chaos!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jason
>> www.jasonshulman.com <http://www.jasonshulman.com>
>> www.shulmanaviation.com <http://www.shulmanaviation.com>
>> www.composite-arf.com <http://www.composite-arf.com>
>>
>> On Behalf  Of Derek  Koopowitz
>>
>>
>>
>> can you just imagine all the "oohhhss and aahhhs"  from the spectators. 
>> :)
>>
>>
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