[NSRCA-discussion] We aren't behind the times.

randy9004 at comcast.net randy9004 at comcast.net
Tue Aug 28 11:16:25 AKDT 2007 

A cheerleader can call for me anytime.

Randy
 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "J N Hiller" <jnhiller at earthlink.net>
> Great, professional callers too.
> Jim Hiller
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Jerry Stebbins
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 6:00 AM
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] We aren't behind the times.
> 
> Seems like we are flogging the dead horse for some other reason than the
> "Spectators". TOC comparisons are a reach. Most "spectators" are other
> contestants/helpers. Few wannabes come out unless they are working, and if
> they have the pattern itch they would be there anyway. Those are they ones
> we can talk to/explain/cultivate/ let fly after the contest!.
> Maybe the old days of short shorts callers could be brought back by
> developing and forming a set of touring callers--how about calling the
> Dallas Cheerleaders and see if they would be interested. THAT would probably
> increase our "Spectator" base. :) :)
> Wonder what the underlying reason is for this thread-anyone willing to
> fess-up?
> Jerry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Pavlick <mailto:jpavlick at idseng.com>
> To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 1:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] We aren't behind the times.
> 
> Uh, what are you guys talking about? Spectators at a Pattern contest? Where
> are they? Do wives and girlfriends count?
> 
> John Pavlick
> http://www.idseng.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Gayer <mailto:jgghome at comcast.net>
> To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] We aren't behind the times.
> 
> Having a large scoreboard with names(maybe pictures of pilots with
> airplanes) and raw scores would help. So would providing handouts on the
> patterns and pattern in general.
> 
> Not having been to an IMAC contest in years, are they doing better in
> providing information to spectators?  Are they getting large crowds for the
> unknowns and freestyles?
> The TOC had a large scoreboard that was kept uptodate, as I recall, with raw
> scores and handed out the patterns being flown.
> Must be why they had such large crowds :-)
> John
> 
> Mark Atwood wrote:
> To take that a step further...when was the last time you saw them televise
> the Figure Skating compulsory rounds...which is basically what we fly...the
> EXACT same routine.  They’ve dropped the “figures” portion of the
> competition completely.
> 
> But I still think it would be entertaining to see scores...though I agree it
> is likely to create problems.
> 
> -M
> 
> 
> 
> On 8/27/07 11:30 PM, "JShulman" <jshulman at cfl.rr.com>
> <mailto:jshulman at cfl.rr.com>  wrote:
> Has anyone else thought that pattern is just really boring? Lets face it, if
> you don't enjoy precision flying, there isn't much that can be done to spice
> it up. It's still the same sequences being flown flight after flight.
> 
> As for the scoring real-time... the only one's that it would matter to would
> be the one's participating in the contest. Not necessarily just the one's in
> the class, but the one's that stay the extra day to watch. Until we throw in
> some sort of freestyle or combat, it's just pattern. Who would watch figure
> skating without music?
> Regards,
> Jason
> www.jasonshulman.com <http://www.jasonshulman.com>
> www.shulmanaviation.com <http://www.shulmanaviation.com>
> www.composite-arf.com <http://www.composite-arf.com>
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:   nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>   [
> mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org%5D> On Behalf Of Lance Van
> Nostrand
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 10:17 PM
> To: NSRCA  Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the  times?
> 
> 
> I'm willing to try things that would make pattern  more spectator friendly.
> I think the reason the lone spectator talking  during a flight has such an
> effect is because its a lone person and  talking loud enough that judges can
> hear is rare.  If it became common  place we would soon tune it out and
> spectators would be better able to follow  the contest.
> 
> 
> 
> Your points are excellent.  In my area we  don't require judges to initial
> their scoresheets.  I don'tunderstand  this and I always initial mine, but I
> also sometimes put downgrade shorthand  next to my scores for pilots that
> enjoy knowing why they got a certain  score.  The occasions that pilots have
> approached me afterwards were  supportive and spiritbuilding.
> 
> 
> 
> --Lance
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> 
> From:  Woodward, Jim <mailto:jim.woodward at baesystems.com>
> <mailto:jim.woodward at baesystems.com>
> 
> To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> 
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 1:08  PM
> 
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we  behind the times?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I heard a story  from this years nats where one of the Advanced competitors
> that was in  contention flew a less-than-perfect maneuver, and another pilot
> who was also  in contention (and watching) yelled out an inappropriate
> remark.  I  think that audience input or influence is something we should
> steer away  from for precision aerobatics.  We certainly do not need it to
> be quiet  like for golf, but direct statements meant to be heard by the
> judges are not  good.
> 
> 
> Although slightly  off topic – what I do think we should do is post all raw
> scores every flight  for every pilot (I think this is done for the WC).  I
> think this would  provide the following opportunities:
> 1. The availability of the raw  scores would in itself represent and
> INCREDIBLE judges training  tool.  Seasoned and new competitor alike could
> watch flights  together, make comments and discuss, then go back later and
> see if what  they thought they saw was in line with the scores for that
> flight.   There is all kinds of opportunity here to facilitate judging
> training (..  ideas welcome).
> 2. Posting of raw scores would  allow “judges” to after-the-fact see how
> they performed compared to their  judging partners.  There is all kinds of
> good value that could come  from this.  Whether noted privately or discussed
> between each other,  it is good from time to time to check yourself.
> 3. Posting of raw scores would  help keep the honest man honest.  By posting
> raw scores, I think  there would be a reduction of bias any way you cut it:
> Santa-Clausing, Low-balling, “teams”, regionality, or other bias’ would be
> removed/reduced if the person knew ahead of time that the judges scores
> would be posted.
> 4. And most importantly,  increased “transparency” in the system helps the
> seasoned and new comer  alike understand the process of the contest,
> scoring, and “how” the 1000,  900, or 800’s came to be.  I believe that no
> matter whom you are, you  want to leave a contest and feel like you (&
> everyone) was dealt a  fair hand.  Transparency is the key to this.
> 5. OK – last one – it takes  “scoring” which is a topic of much discussion
> during and after a pattern  contest in case you haven’t heard, away from a
> shadowy discussion, and  brings to the open this topic which everyone is
> already discussing.   This would do a lot to remove ammunition from the
> conspiracy theorist and  such whom all of our districts have.  Transparency
> is good  J
> 
> 
> I write none of  this from the sour-grapes perspective.  I love this stuff.
> I  think the potential benefits from posting the raws would out weight the
> potential bad, provide more transparency for the competitor and also provide
> judges training.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim  W.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
>   _____
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> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> From:   nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>   [
> mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]
> <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org%5D>  On Behalf Of JShulman
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 1:49  PM
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we  behind the times?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably the best  reason not to have it...lol. It's bad enough when we
> screw-up... I mean when  a pilot screws-up and you hear all the
> OOOooooohhhhhhhhhhhh's from the  crowd. Now just imagine the uproar when
> someone gets judged for a maneuver  that they are doing all wrong! Total
> Chaos!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Jason
> www.jasonshulman.com <http://www.jasonshulman.com>
> www.shulmanaviation.com <http://www.shulmanaviation.com>
> www.composite-arf.com <http://www.composite-arf.com>
> 
> On Behalf  Of Derek  Koopowitz
> 
> 
> 
> can you just imagine all the "oohhhss and aahhhs"  from the spectators.   :)
> 
> 
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> 
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