[NSRCA-discussion] We aren't behind the times.

John Gayer jgghome at comcast.net
Mon Aug 27 20:12:12 AKDT 2007


Having a large scoreboard with names(maybe pictures of pilots with 
airplanes) and raw scores would help. So would providing handouts on the 
patterns and pattern in general.

Not having been to an IMAC contest in years, are they doing better in 
providing information to spectators?  Are they getting large crowds for 
the unknowns and freestyles?
The TOC had a large scoreboard that was kept uptodate, as I recall, with 
raw scores and handed out the patterns being flown.
Must be why they had such large crowds :-)
John

Mark Atwood wrote:

> To take that a step further...when was the last time you saw them 
> televise the Figure Skating compulsory rounds...which is basically 
> what we fly...the EXACT same routine.  They've dropped the "figures" 
> portion of the competition completely.  
>
> But I still think it would be entertaining to see scores...though I 
> agree it is likely to create problems.
>
> -M
>
>
>
> On 8/27/07 11:30 PM, "JShulman" <jshulman at cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
>     Has anyone else thought that pattern is just really boring? Lets
>     face it, if you don't enjoy precision flying, there isn't much
>     that can be done to spice it up. It's still the same sequences
>     being flown flight after flight.
>
>     As for the scoring real-time... the only one's that it would
>     matter to would be the one's participating in the contest. Not
>     necessarily just the one's in the class, but the one's that stay
>     the extra day to watch. Until we throw in some sort of freestyle
>     or combat, it's just pattern. Who would watch figure skating
>     without music?
>     Regards,
>     Jason
>     www.jasonshulman.com
>     www.shulmanaviation.com
>     www.composite-arf.com
>
>
>         -----Original Message-----
>         *From:*  nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>          [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]
>         <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org%5D>*On Behalf
>         Of *Lance Van  Nostrand
>         *Sent:* Monday, August 27, 2007 10:17 PM
>         *To:* NSRCA  Mailing List
>         *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the  times?
>
>
>         I'm willing to try things that would make pattern  more
>         spectator friendly.  I think the reason the lone spectator
>         talking  during a flight has such an effect is because its a
>         lone person and  talking loud enough that judges can hear is
>         rare.  If it became common  place we would soon tune it out
>         and spectators would be better able to follow  the contest.
>
>          
>          
>         Your points are excellent.  In my area we  don't require
>         judges to initial their scoresheets.  I don'tunderstand  this
>         and I always initial mine, but I also sometimes put downgrade
>         shorthand  next to my scores for pilots that enjoy knowing why
>         they got a certain  score.  The occasions that pilots have
>         approached me afterwards were  supportive and spiritbuilding.
>
>          
>          
>         --Lance
>
>          
>          
>
>
>             ----- Original Message -----
>              
>             *From:*  Woodward, Jim <mailto:jim.woodward at baesystems.com>  
>              
>             *To:* NSRCA Mailing List
>             <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  
>              
>             *Sent:* Monday, August 27, 2007 1:08  PM
>              
>             *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we  behind the times?
>              
>
>              
>              
>              
>
>             I heard a story  from this years nats where one of the
>             Advanced competitors that was in  contention flew a
>             less-than-perfect maneuver, and another pilot who was also
>              in contention (and watching) yelled out an inappropriate
>             remark.  I  think that audience input or influence is
>             something we should steer away  from for precision
>             aerobatics.  We certainly do not need it to be quiet  like
>             for golf, but direct statements meant to be heard by the
>             judges are not  good.
>
>              
>             Although slightly  off topic - what I do think we should
>             do is post all raw scores every flight  for every pilot (I
>             think this is done for the WC).  I think this would
>              provide the following opportunities:
>
>                1. The availability of the raw  scores would in itself
>                   represent and INCREDIBLE judges training  tool.
>                    Seasoned and new competitor alike could watch
>                   flights  together, make comments and discuss, then
>                   go back later and see if what  they thought they saw
>                   was in line with the scores for that flight.   There
>                   is all kinds of opportunity here to facilitate
>                   judging training (..  ideas welcome).  
>                2. Posting of raw scores would  allow "judges" to
>                   after-the-fact see how they performed compared to
>                   their  judging partners.  There is all kinds of good
>                   value that could come  from this.  Whether noted
>                   privately or discussed between each other,  it is
>                   good from time to time to check yourself.  
>                3. Posting of raw scores would  help keep the honest
>                   man honest.  By posting raw scores, I think  there
>                   would be a reduction of bias any way you cut it:
>                     Santa-Clausing, Low-balling, "teams", regionality,
>                   or other bias' would be  removed/reduced if the
>                   person knew ahead of time that the judges scores
>                    would be posted.  
>                4. And most importantly,  increased "transparency" in
>                   the system helps the seasoned and new comer  alike
>                   understand the process of the contest, scoring, and
>                   "how" the 1000,  900, or 800's came to be.  I
>                   believe that no matter whom you are, you  want to
>                   leave a contest and feel like you (& everyone) was
>                   dealt a  fair hand.  Transparency is the key to
>                   this.   
>                5. OK - last one - it takes  "scoring" which is a topic
>                   of much discussion during and after a pattern
>                    contest in case you haven't heard, away from a
>                   shadowy discussion, and  brings to the open this
>                   topic which everyone is already discussing.   This
>                   would do a lot to remove ammunition from the
>                   conspiracy theorist and  such whom all of our
>                   districts have.  Transparency is good  J  
>
>
>              
>             I write none of  this from the sour-grapes perspective.  I
>             love this stuff.  I  think the potential benefits from
>             posting the raws would out weight the  potential bad,
>             provide more transparency for the competitor and also
>             provide  judges training.
>
>              
>             Thanks,
>
>             Jim  W.
>
>              
>              
>              
>              
>              
>              
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>              
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>             ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>              
>              
>
>
>             *From:*  nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>              [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]
>             <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org%5D> *On
>             Behalf Of *JShulman
>             *Sent:* Monday, August 27, 2007 1:49  PM
>             *To:* NSRCA Mailing List
>             *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we  behind the times?
>
>              
>              
>
>             Probably the best  reason not to have it...lol. It's bad
>             enough when we screw-up... I mean when  a pilot screws-up
>             and you hear all the OOOooooohhhhhhhhhhhh's from the
>              crowd. Now just imagine the uproar when someone gets
>             judged for a maneuver  that they are doing all wrong!
>             Total  Chaos!
>
>              
>
>              
>             Regards,
>             Jason
>             www.jasonshulman.com
>             www.shulmanaviation.com
>             www.composite-arf.com  
>              
>
>                 *On Behalf  Of *Derek  Koopowitz
>
>                  
>
>                 can you just imagine all the "oohhhss and aahhhs"
>                  from the spectators.   :)
>
>
>              
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