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Having a large scoreboard with names(maybe pictures of pilots with
airplanes) and raw scores would help. So would providing handouts on
the patterns and pattern in general.<br>
<br>
Not having been to an IMAC contest in years, are they doing better in
providing information to spectators? Are they getting large crowds for
the unknowns and freestyles?<br>
The TOC had a large scoreboard that was kept uptodate, as I recall,
with raw scores and handed out the patterns being flown.<br>
Must be why they had such large crowds <span class="moz-smiley-s1"><span>
:-) </span></span><br>
John<br>
<br>
Mark Atwood wrote:
<blockquote cite="midC2F912CC.18C7B%25atwoodm@paragon-inc.com"
type="cite">
<title>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] We aren't behind the times.</title>
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size: 12px;">To
take that a step further...when was the last time you saw them televise
the Figure Skating compulsory rounds...which is basically what we
fly...the EXACT same routine. They’ve dropped the “figures” portion of
the competition completely. <br>
<br>
But I still think it would be entertaining to see scores...though I
agree it is likely to create problems.<br>
<br>
-M<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 8/27/07 11:30 PM, "JShulman" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jshulman@cfl.rr.com"><jshulman@cfl.rr.com></a> wrote:<br>
<br>
</span></font>
<blockquote><span style="font-size: 12px;"><font color="#0000ff"><font
face="Arial">Has anyone else thought that pattern is just really
boring? Lets face it, if you don't enjoy precision flying, there isn't
much that can be done to spice it up. It's still the same sequences
being flown flight after flight. <br>
<br>
As for the scoring real-time... the only one's that it would matter to
would be the one's participating in the contest. Not necessarily just
the one's in the class, but the one's that stay the extra day to watch.
Until we throw in some sort of freestyle or combat, it's just pattern.
Who would watch figure skating without music? <br>
</font></font><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">Regards,<br>
Jason<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.jasonshulman.com">www.jasonshulman.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com">www.shulmanaviation.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.composite-arf.com">www.composite-arf.com</a> <br>
</font></span>
<blockquote><span style="font-size: 12px;"><font
face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"> <br>
</font><font face="Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<br>
<b>From:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a> [<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org%5D">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]</a><b>On
Behalf Of </b>Lance Van Nostrand<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 27, 2007 10:17 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> NSRCA Mailing List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?<br>
<br>
</font><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"> <br>
</font><font face="Arial">I'm willing to try things that would
make pattern more spectator friendly. I think the reason the lone
spectator talking during a flight has such an effect is because its a
lone person and talking loud enough that judges can hear is rare. If
it became common place we would soon tune it out and spectators would
be better able to follow the contest.<br>
</font><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"> <br>
<br>
<br>
</font><font face="Arial">Your points are excellent. In my area
we don't require judges to initial their scoresheets. I
don'tunderstand this and I always initial mine, but I also sometimes
put downgrade shorthand next to my scores for pilots that enjoy
knowing why they got a certain score. The occasions that pilots have
approached me afterwards were supportive and spiritbuilding.<br>
</font><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"> <br>
<br>
<br>
</font><font face="Arial">--Lance<br>
</font><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"> <br>
<br>
<br>
</font></span>
<blockquote><span style="font-size: 12px;"><font
face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"> <br>
----- Original Message ----- <br>
<br>
<b>From:</b> Woodward, Jim <a
href="mailto:jim.woodward@baesystems.com"><mailto:jim.woodward@baesystems.com></a>
<br>
<br>
<b>To:</b> NSRCA Mailing List <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></a>
<br>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 27, 2007 1:08 PM<br>
<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font></span><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><font
color="#000080"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 13px;">I heard
a story from this years nats where one of the Advanced competitors
that was in contention flew a less-than-perfect maneuver, and another
pilot who was also in contention (and watching) yelled out an
inappropriate remark. I think that audience input or influence is
something we should steer away from for precision aerobatics. We
certainly do not need it to be quiet like for golf, but direct
statements meant to be heard by the judges are not good.<br>
</span></font></font><span style="font-size: 12px;"> <br>
<br>
</span><font color="#000080"><font size="4"><span
style="font-size: 13px;">Although slightly off topic – what I do
think we should do is post all raw scores every flight for every pilot
(I think this is done for the WC). I think this would provide the
following opportunities:<br>
</span></font></font><span style="font-size: 12px;"> <br>
</span></font>
<ol>
<li><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><font
color="#000080"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 13px;">The
availability of the raw scores would in itself represent and
INCREDIBLE judges training tool. Seasoned and new competitor alike
could watch flights together, make comments and discuss, then go back
later and see if what they thought they saw was in line with the
scores for that flight. There is all kinds of opportunity here to
facilitate judging training (.. ideas welcome).</span></font></font><span
style="font-size: 12px;">
</span></font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><font
color="#000080"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 13px;">Posting
of raw scores would allow “judges” to after-the-fact see how they
performed compared to their judging partners. There is all kinds of
good value that could come from this. Whether noted privately or
discussed between each other, it is good from time to time to check
yourself.</span></font></font><span style="font-size: 12px;">
</span></font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><font
color="#000080"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 13px;">Posting
of raw scores would help keep the honest man honest. By posting raw
scores, I think there would be a reduction of bias any way you cut it:
Santa-Clausing, Low-balling, “teams”, regionality, or other bias’
would be removed/reduced if the person knew ahead of time that the
judges scores would be posted.</span></font></font><span
style="font-size: 12px;">
</span></font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><font
color="#000080"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 13px;">And most
importantly, increased “transparency” in the system helps the seasoned
and new comer alike understand the process of the contest, scoring,
and “how” the 1000, 900, or 800’s came to be. I believe that no
matter whom you are, you want to leave a contest and feel like you
(& everyone) was dealt a fair hand. Transparency is the key to
this. </span></font></font><span style="font-size: 12px;"> </span></font></li>
<li><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><font
color="#000080"><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 13px;">OK –
last one – it takes “scoring” which is a topic of much discussion
during and after a pattern contest in case you haven’t heard, away
from a shadowy discussion, and brings to the open this topic which
everyone is already discussing. This would do a lot to remove
ammunition from the conspiracy theorist and such whom all of our
districts have. Transparency is good </span></font></font><font
size="4"><span style="font-size: 13px;">J <br>
</span></font></font></li>
</ol>
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 12px;"> <br>
<br>
</span><font color="#000080"><font size="4"><span
style="font-size: 13px;">I write none of this from the sour-grapes
perspective. I love this stuff. I think the potential benefits from
posting the raws would out weight the potential bad, provide more
transparency for the competitor and also provide judges training.<br>
</span></font></font><span style="font-size: 12px;"> <br>
<br>
</span><font color="#000080"><font size="4"><span
style="font-size: 13px;">Thanks,<br>
</span></font></font><span style="font-size: 12px;"> <br>
</span><font color="#000080"><font size="4"><span
style="font-size: 13px;">Jim W.<br>
</span></font></font><span style="font-size: 12px;"> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><span style="font-size: 12px;"><font face="Arial">CONFIDENTIALITY
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</span></font></font><font size="5"><span
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<br>
<br>
</font></span></font><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 12px;"> <br>
<br>
</span></font>
<p align="center"><font size="5"><font face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size: 16px;"> <br>
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%"> </span></font></font>
</p>
<p><font size="5"><span style="font-size: 16px;"><font
face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"> <br>
</font></span></font><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 12px;"> <br>
<br>
<br>
</span><font size="5"><span style="font-size: 16px;"> <br>
<br>
</span></font><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 13px;"><b>From:</b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a> [<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org%5D">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]</a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>JShulman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 27, 2007 1:49 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> NSRCA Mailing List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?<br>
</span></font><font size="5"><span style="font-size: 16px;"> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font color="#0000ff">Probably the best reason not to have
it...lol. It's bad enough when we screw-up... I mean when a pilot
screws-up and you hear all the OOOooooohhhhhhhhhhhh's from the crowd.
Now just imagine the uproar when someone gets judged for a maneuver
that they are doing all wrong! Total Chaos!<br>
</font> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font></font><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size: 13px;">Regards,<br>
Jason<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.jasonshulman.com">www.jasonshulman.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com">www.shulmanaviation.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.composite-arf.com">www.composite-arf.com</a></span></font></font><font size="5"><font
face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="font-size: 16px;"> <br>
<br>
</span></font></font></p>
<blockquote><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><font
size="4"><span style="font-size: 13px;"><b>On Behalf Of </b>Derek
Koopowitz<br>
</span></font><font size="5"><span style="font-size: 16px;"> <br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font></font><font size="5"><span
style="font-size: 16px;"><font face="Times New Roman">can you just
imagine all the "oohhhss and aahhhs" from the spectators. :)<br>
</font></span></font></blockquote>
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span
style="font-size: 12px;"> <br>
<br>
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