[NSRCA-discussion] We aren't behind the times.

Mark Atwood atwoodm at paragon-inc.com
Mon Aug 27 19:46:27 AKDT 2007 

To take that a step further...when was the last time you saw them televise
the Figure Skating compulsory rounds...which is basically what we fly...the
EXACT same routine.  They¹ve dropped the ³figures² portion of the
competition completely.

But I still think it would be entertaining to see scores...though I agree it
is likely to create problems.

-M



On 8/27/07 11:30 PM, "JShulman" <jshulman at cfl.rr.com> wrote:

> Has anyone else thought that pattern is just really boring? Lets face it, if
> you don't enjoy precision flying, there isn't much that can be done to spice
> it up. It's still the same sequences being flown flight after flight.
> 
> As for the scoring real-time... the only one's that it would matter to would
> be the one's participating in the contest. Not necessarily just the one's in
> the class, but the one's that stay the extra day to watch. Until we throw in
> some sort of freestyle or combat, it's just pattern. Who would watch figure
> skating without music?
> Regards,
> Jason
> www.jasonshulman.com
> www.shulmanaviation.com
> www.composite-arf.com
>>  
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:  nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Lance Van
>> Nostrand
>> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 10:17 PM
>> To: NSRCA  Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the  times?
>> 
>>  
>> I'm willing to try things that would make pattern  more spectator friendly.
>> I think the reason the lone spectator talking  during a flight has such an
>> effect is because its a lone person and  talking loud enough that judges can
>> hear is rare.  If it became common  place we would soon tune it out and
>> spectators would be better able to follow  the contest.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> Your points are excellent.  In my area we  don't require judges to initial
>> their scoresheets.  I don'tunderstand  this and I always initial mine, but I
>> also sometimes put downgrade shorthand  next to my scores for pilots that
>> enjoy knowing why they got a certain  score.  The occasions that pilots have
>> approached me afterwards were  supportive and spiritbuilding.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> --Lance
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>>  
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>  
>>> From:  Woodward, Jim <mailto:jim.woodward at baesystems.com>
>>>  
>>> To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>  
>>> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 1:08  PM
>>>  
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we  behind the times?
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>> I heard a story  from this years nats where one of the Advanced competitors
>>> that was in  contention flew a less-than-perfect maneuver, and another pilot
>>> who was also  in contention (and watching) yelled out an inappropriate
>>> remark.  I  think that audience input or influence is something we should
>>> steer away  from for precision aerobatics.  We certainly do not need it to
>>> be quiet  like for golf, but direct statements meant to be heard by the
>>> judges are not  good.
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Although slightly  off topic ­ what I do think we should do is post all raw
>>> scores every flight  for every pilot (I think this is done for the WC).  I
>>> think this would  provide the following opportunities:
>>>  
>>> 1. The availability of the raw  scores would in itself represent and
>>> INCREDIBLE judges training  tool.  Seasoned and new competitor alike could
>>> watch flights  together, make comments and discuss, then go back later and
>>> see if what  they thought they saw was in line with the scores for that
>>> flight.   There is all kinds of opportunity here to facilitate judging
>>> training (..  ideas welcome).
>>> 2. Posting of raw scores would  allow ³judges² to after-the-fact see how
>>> they performed compared to their  judging partners.  There is all kinds of
>>> good value that could come  from this.  Whether noted privately or discussed
>>> between each other,  it is good from time to time to check yourself.
>>> 3. Posting of raw scores would  help keep the honest man honest.  By posting
>>> raw scores, I think  there would be a reduction of bias any way you cut it:
>>> Santa-Clausing, Low-balling, ³teams², regionality, or other bias¹ would be
>>> removed/reduced if the person knew ahead of time that the judges scores
>>> would be posted.
>>> 4. And most importantly,  increased ³transparency² in the system helps the
>>> seasoned and new comer  alike understand the process of the contest,
>>> scoring, and ³how² the 1000,  900, or 800¹s came to be.  I believe that no
>>> matter whom you are, you  want to leave a contest and feel like you (&
>>> everyone) was dealt a  fair hand.  Transparency is the key to this.
>>> 5. OK ­ last one ­ it takes  ³scoring² which is a topic of much discussion
>>> during and after a pattern  contest in case you haven¹t heard, away from a
>>> shadowy discussion, and  brings to the open this topic which everyone is
>>> already discussing.   This would do a lot to remove ammunition from the
>>> conspiracy theorist and  such whom all of our districts have.  Transparency
>>> is good  J  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> I write none of  this from the sour-grapes perspective.  I love this stuff.
>>> I  think the potential benefits from posting the raws would out weight the
>>> potential bad, provide more transparency for the competitor and also provide
>>> judges training.
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Thanks,
>>>  
>>> Jim  W.
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
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>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From:  nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of JShulman
>>> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 1:49  PM
>>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we  behind the times?
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Probably the best  reason not to have it...lol. It's bad enough when we
>>> screw-up... I mean when  a pilot screws-up and you hear all the
>>> OOOooooohhhhhhhhhhhh's from the  crowd. Now just imagine the uproar when
>>> someone gets judged for a maneuver  that they are doing all wrong! Total
>>> Chaos!
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Regards,
>>> Jason
>>> www.jasonshulman.com
>>> www.shulmanaviation.com
>>> www.composite-arf.com
>>>  
>>>> On Behalf  Of Derek  Koopowitz
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> can you just imagine all the "oohhhss and aahhhs"  from the spectators.
>>>> :)
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> 
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