[NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?

Mon Aug 27 19:08:34 AKDT 2007

Note to self:  don't talk about Jason within 1000 ft of his back.
--Lance

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "JShulman" <jshulman at cfl.rr.com>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?


> Its ok Jon, we all know your whisper is really a dull roar...lol. I hear 
> you're gonna be "busy" during the Jax contest. Hope we see you at 
> Tangerine. You know Disney is down here ;)
>
> Regards,
> Jason
> www.jasonshulman.com
> www.shulmanaviation.com
> www.composite-arf.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Jon Lowe
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 3:21 PM
> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?
>
>
> I made a similar mistake at the BPA contest a few weeks ago. Jason was
> flying, and the guy I was sitting next to made some comment about his
> loops.  I said something about a previous flight.  Jason heard me,
> thought I was talking about the flight he was in at the time, and asked
> me about it later.  Sorry Jason!
>
>
> Jon Lowe
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JShulman <jshulman at cfl.rr.com>
> To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 2:44 pm
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?
>
>
>
> Wow Tim, what a memory... I don't even remember that part of the
> contest. But I need to learn how to concentrate more on my flying and
> less on what I hear while I fly. One round at the Nats this year I
> swore I heard a judge say zero during one of my flights (I think my 1st
> unknown), and from then on (3rd or 4th maneuver in) I was a mess. Come
> to find out, I didn't zero anything, but I didn't know that at the
> time, so I wasted away a flight for nothing.
>
>
>
> Now if I can just convince the FAI guys at Jax to try a round of
> "self-judging" then we can have "fun" with the judging. Although
> calculating the scores would be a minor issue.
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Jason
> www.jasonshulman.com
> www.shulmanaviation.com
> www.composite-arf.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of twtaylor
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 2:13 PM
> To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?
>
>
>
>
> This happened years ago, Jason, Joe and Ryan were up here flying a
> local contest. Jason decided to try his hand at FAI in front of a set
> of judges. He asked and received permission to do a practice flight in
> front of said FAI judges. A few of us (My self included) sat back and
> watched his flight. We went through each maneuver and talking to each
> other as the flight went along about what was right and wrong and the
> score for each maneuver. Mind you we were 40’ away from the judges.
> When Jason landed you could tell he was a bit miffed (more like
> pissed). Seems our talking to each other could be heard by him and the
> judges (Confirmed by the judges). I had no idea he could hear us and I
> apologized to Jason and the judge’s and never did that at a contest
> again. BTW IIRC He would have won that round. J
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
> Woodward, Jim
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 2:08 PM
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?
>
>
>
>
>
> I heard a story from this years nats where one of the Advanced
> competitors that was in contention flew a less-than-perfect maneuver,
> and another pilot who was also in contention (and watching) yelled out
> an inappropriate remark.  I think that audience input or influence is
> something we should steer away from for precision aerobatics.  We
> certainly do not need it to be quiet like for golf, but direct
> statements meant to be heard by the judges are not good.
>
>
>
> Although slightly off topic – what I do think we should do is post all
> raw scores every flight for every pilot (I think this is done for the
> WC).  I think this would provide the following opportunities:
>
>
> The availability of the raw scores would in itself represent and
> INCREDIBLE judges training tool.  Seasoned and new competitor alike
> could watch flights together, make comments and discuss, then go back
> later and see if what they thought they saw was in line with the scores
> for that flight.  There is all kinds of opportunity here to facilitate
> judging training (.. ideas welcome).
>
> Posting of raw scores would allow “judges” to after-the-fact see how
> they performed compared to their judging partners.  There is all kinds
> of good value that could come from this.  Whether noted privately or
> discussed between each other, it is good from time to time to check
> yourself.
>
> Posting of raw scores would help keep the honest man honest.  By
> posting raw scores, I think there would be a reduction of bias any way
> you cut it:  Santa-Clausing, Low-balling, “teams”, regionality, or
> other bias’ would be removed/reduced if the person knew ahead of time
> that the judges scores would be posted.
>
> And most importantly, increased “transparency” in the system helps the
> seasoned and new comer alike understand the process of the contest,
> scoring, and “how” the 1000, 900, or 800’s came to be.  I believe that
> no matter whom you are, you want to leave a contest and feel like you
> (& everyone) was dealt a fair hand.  Transparency is the key to this.
>
> OK – last one – it takes “scoring” which is a topic of much discussion
> during and after a pattern contest in case you haven’t heard, away from
> a shadowy discussion, and brings to the open this topic which everyone
> is already discussing.  This would do a lot to remove ammunition from
> the conspiracy theorist and such whom all of our districts have.
> Transparency is good J
>
>
>
>
> I write none of this from the sour-grapes perspective.  I love this
> stuff.  I think the potential benefits from posting the raws would out
> weight the potential bad, provide more transparency for the competitor
> and also provide judges training.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim W.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of JShulman
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 1:49 PM
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?
>
>
>
>
>
> Probably the best reason not to have it...lol. It's bad enough when we
> screw-up... I mean when a pilot screws-up and you hear all the
> OOOooooohhhhhhhhhhhh's from the crowd. Now just imagine the uproar when
> someone gets judged for a maneuver that they are doing all wrong! Total
> Chaos!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Jason
> www.jasonshulman.com
> www.shulmanaviation.com
> www.composite-arf.com
>
>
> On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz
>
>
> can you just imagine all the "oohhhss and aahhhs" from the spectators.
> :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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