[NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?

Mon Aug 27 12:37:46 AKDT 2007

Its ok Jon, we all know your whisper is really a dull roar...lol. I hear you're gonna be "busy" during the Jax contest. Hope we see you at Tangerine. You know Disney is down here ;)

Regards,
Jason
www.jasonshulman.com 
www.shulmanaviation.com
www.composite-arf.com

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Jon Lowe
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 3:21 PM
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?

I made a similar mistake at the BPA contest a few weeks ago. Jason was 
flying, and the guy I was sitting next to made some comment about his 
loops.  I said something about a previous flight.  Jason heard me, 
thought I was talking about the flight he was in at the time, and asked 
me about it later.  Sorry Jason!

Jon Lowe

-----Original Message-----
From: JShulman <jshulman at cfl.rr.com>
To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 2:44 pm
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?

Wow Tim, what a memory... I don't even remember that part of the 
contest. But I need to learn how to concentrate more on my flying and 
less on what I hear while I fly. One round at the Nats this year I 
swore I heard a judge say zero during one of my flights (I think my 1st 
unknown), and from then on (3rd or 4th maneuver in) I was a mess. Come 
to find out, I didn't zero anything, but I didn't know that at the 
time, so I wasted away a flight for nothing.

Now if I can just convince the FAI guys at Jax to try a round of 
"self-judging" then we can have "fun" with the judging. Although 
calculating the scores would be a minor issue.

Regards,
Jason
www.jasonshulman.com
www.shulmanaviation.com
www.composite-arf.com

-----Original Message-----
 From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org 
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of twtaylor
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 2:13 PM
To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?

This happened years ago, Jason, Joe and Ryan were up here flying a 
local contest. Jason decided to try his hand at FAI in front of a set 
of judges. He asked and received permission to do a practice flight in 
front of said FAI judges. A few of us (My self included) sat back and 
watched his flight. We went through each maneuver and talking to each 
other as the flight went along about what was right and wrong and the 
score for each maneuver. Mind you we were 40’ away from the judges. 
When Jason landed you could tell he was a bit miffed (more like 
pissed). Seems our talking to each other could be heard by him and the 
judges (Confirmed by the judges). I had no idea he could hear us and I 
apologized to Jason and the judge’s and never did that at a contest 
again. BTW IIRC He would have won that round. J

------------------------------------------------------------

 From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org 
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of 
Woodward, Jim
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 2:08 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?

I heard a story from this years nats where one of the Advanced 
competitors that was in contention flew a less-than-perfect maneuver, 
and another pilot who was also in contention (and watching) yelled out 
an inappropriate remark.  I think that audience input or influence is 
something we should steer away from for precision aerobatics.  We 
certainly do not need it to be quiet like for golf, but direct 
statements meant to be heard by the judges are not good.

Although slightly off topic – what I do think we should do is post all 
raw scores every flight for every pilot (I think this is done for the 
WC).  I think this would provide the following opportunities:

The availability of the raw scores would in itself represent and 
INCREDIBLE judges training tool.  Seasoned and new competitor alike 
could watch flights together, make comments and discuss, then go back 
later and see if what they thought they saw was in line with the scores 
for that flight.  There is all kinds of opportunity here to facilitate 
judging training (.. ideas welcome).

Posting of raw scores would allow “judges” to after-the-fact see how 
they performed compared to their judging partners.  There is all kinds 
of good value that could come from this.  Whether noted privately or 
discussed between each other, it is good from time to time to check 
yourself.

Posting of raw scores would help keep the honest man honest.  By 
posting raw scores, I think there would be a reduction of bias any way 
you cut it:  Santa-Clausing, Low-balling, “teams”, regionality, or 
other bias’ would be removed/reduced if the person knew ahead of time 
that the judges scores would be posted.

And most importantly, increased “transparency” in the system helps the 
seasoned and new comer alike understand the process of the contest, 
scoring, and “how” the 1000, 900, or 800’s came to be.  I believe that 
no matter whom you are, you want to leave a contest and feel like you 
(& everyone) was dealt a fair hand.  Transparency is the key to this. 

OK – last one – it takes “scoring” which is a topic of much discussion 
during and after a pattern contest in case you haven’t heard, away from 
a shadowy discussion, and brings to the open this topic which everyone 
is already discussing.  This would do a lot to remove ammunition from 
the conspiracy theorist and such whom all of our districts have.  
Transparency is good J

I write none of this from the sour-grapes perspective.  I love this 
stuff.  I think the potential benefits from posting the raws would out 
weight the potential bad, provide more transparency for the competitor 
and also provide judges training.

Thanks,

Jim W.

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 From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org 
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of JShulman
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 1:49 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?

Probably the best reason not to have it...lol. It's bad enough when we 
screw-up... I mean when a pilot screws-up and you hear all the 
OOOooooohhhhhhhhhhhh's from the crowd. Now just imagine the uproar when 
someone gets judged for a maneuver that they are doing all wrong! Total 
Chaos!

Regards,
Jason
www.jasonshulman.com
www.shulmanaviation.com
www.composite-arf.com

On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz

can you just imagine all the "oohhhss and aahhhs" from the spectators.  
:)

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