[NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?

[Richard Strickland]

Nah--he was saying 'My Hero'....

RS
  -----Original Message-----
  From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of JShulman
  Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 2:44 PM
  To: NSRCA Mailing List
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?


  Wow Tim, what a memory... I don't even remember that part of the contest.
But I need to learn how to concentrate more on my flying and less on what I
hear while I fly. One round at the Nats this year I swore I heard a judge
say zero during one of my flights (I think my 1st unknown), and from then on
(3rd or 4th maneuver in) I was a mess. Come to find out, I didn't zero
anything, but I didn't know that at the time, so I wasted away a flight for
nothing.

  Now if I can just convince the FAI guys at Jax to try a round of
"self-judging" then we can have "fun" with the judging. Although calculating
the scores would be a minor issue.

  Regards,
  Jason
  www.jasonshulman.com
  www.shulmanaviation.com
  www.composite-arf.com

    -----Original Message-----
    From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of twtaylor
    Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 2:13 PM
    To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'
    Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?


    This happened years ago, Jason, Joe and Ryan were up here flying a local
contest. Jason decided to try his hand at FAI in front of a set of judges.
He asked and received permission to do a practice flight in front of said
FAI judges. A few of us (My self included) sat back and watched his flight.
We went through each maneuver and talking to each other as the flight went
along about what was right and wrong and the score for each maneuver. Mind
you we were 40’ away from the judges. When Jason landed you could tell he
was a bit miffed (more like pissed). Seems our talking to each other could
be heard by him and the judges (Confirmed by the judges). I had no idea he
could hear us and I apologized to Jason and the judge’s and never did that
at a contest again. BTW IIRC He would have won that round. J




----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Woodward, Jim
    Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 2:08 PM
    To: NSRCA Mailing List
    Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?



    I heard a story from this years nats where one of the Advanced
competitors that was in contention flew a less-than-perfect maneuver, and
another pilot who was also in contention (and watching) yelled out an
inappropriate remark.  I think that audience input or influence is something
we should steer away from for precision aerobatics.  We certainly do not
need it to be quiet like for golf, but direct statements meant to be heard
by the judges are not good.



    Although slightly off topic – what I do think we should do is post all
raw scores every flight for every pilot (I think this is done for the WC).
I think this would provide the following opportunities:

      1.. The availability of the raw scores would in itself represent and
INCREDIBLE judges training tool.  Seasoned and new competitor alike could
watch flights together, make comments and discuss, then go back later and
see if what they thought they saw was in line with the scores for that
flight.  There is all kinds of opportunity here to facilitate judging
training (.. ideas welcome).
      2.. Posting of raw scores would allow “judges” to after-the-fact see
how they performed compared to their judging partners.  There is all kinds
of good value that could come from this.  Whether noted privately or
discussed between each other, it is good from time to time to check
yourself.
      3.. Posting of raw scores would help keep the honest man honest.  By
posting raw scores, I think there would be a reduction of bias any way you
cut it:  Santa-Clausing, Low-balling, “teams”, regionality, or other bias’
would be removed/reduced if the person knew ahead of time that the judges
scores would be posted.
      4.. And most importantly, increased “transparency” in the system helps
the seasoned and new comer alike understand the process of the contest,
scoring, and “how” the 1000, 900, or 800’s came to be.  I believe that no
matter whom you are, you want to leave a contest and feel like you (&
everyone) was dealt a fair hand.  Transparency is the key to this.
      5.. OK – last one – it takes “scoring” which is a topic of much
discussion during and after a pattern contest in case you haven’t heard,
away from a shadowy discussion, and brings to the open this topic which
everyone is already discussing.  This would do a lot to remove ammunition
from the conspiracy theorist and such whom all of our districts have.
Transparency is good J


    I write none of this from the sour-grapes perspective.  I love this
stuff.  I think the potential benefits from posting the raws would out
weight the potential bad, provide more transparency for the competitor and
also provide judges training.



    Thanks,

    Jim W.







    CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments,
is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain
confidential and proprietary information.  Any unauthorized review, use,
disclosure or distribution is prohibited.  If you are not the intended
recipient(s), please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all
copies of the original message.




----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of JShulman
    Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 1:49 PM
    To: NSRCA Mailing List
    Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?



    Probably the best reason not to have it...lol. It's bad enough when we
screw-up... I mean when a pilot screws-up and you hear all the
OOOooooohhhhhhhhhhhh's from the crowd. Now just imagine the uproar when
someone gets judged for a maneuver that they are doing all wrong! Total
Chaos!



    Regards,
    Jason
    www.jasonshulman.com
    www.shulmanaviation.com
    www.composite-arf.com

      On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz

      can you just imagine all the "oohhhss and aahhhs" from the spectators.
:)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20070827/85adecca/attachment-0001.html