[NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?

Chad Northeast chad at f3acanada.org
Mon Aug 27 18:51:29 AKDT 2007


However in between pilots Jason could be seen texting like a madman :)

Chad

JShulman wrote:
> Having been one of the judges during this, thankfully Vince's plane 
> looked like it was relatively untouched and Lamar's plane was missing 
> the stab. When Vince told us that he was "ok" we did ask him to fly 
> around and let Lamar land before him. Although shaken, Vince brought 
> his plane in like a champ. But ONLY in instances like that would I 
> want anyone other than the caller talking.
> And one thing that we all did was turn our phones off when we judged. 
> Just common sense/courtesy, or so I thought.
>
> Regards,
> Jason
> www.jasonshulman.com
> www.shulmanaviation.com
> www.composite-arf.com
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     *From:* vicenterc at comcast.net [mailto:vicenterc at comcast.net]
>     *Sent:* Monday, August 27, 2007 3:51 PM
>     *To:* NSRCA Mailing List; NSRCA Mailing List
>     *Cc:* JShulman
>     *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?
>
>     Well, sometimes is very good to hear the public and the judges. A
>     the Nats this year, I was flying inverted full concentration
>     getting ready for the second maneuver in Master. Suddenly, my
>     plane started to roll extremely fast to the left. In the first
>     split second, I didn't know what is going on. I just cut the
>     engine. In the second split second, I hear that someone said "he
>     lost the elevator". In that moment, I knew that I had a mid-air
>     but I didn't know if that was my elevator. In the third split
>     second, I gave full right aileron and the plane stop rolling. I
>     started to give power slowly and the judges behind me were very
>     helpful to me saying that the my plane was OK and fly around until
>     the other plane that lost the elevator landed. We were very lucky
>     that we didn't lost the planes but I think other pilots and judges
>     were really helpful to get the planes back. I appreciate very much
>     th e help and comments from pilots and judges in that particular case.
>     Regards,
>     --
>     Vicente "Vince" Bortone
>
>         -------------- Original message --------------
>         From: "JShulman" <jshulman at cfl.rr.com>
>         Wow Tim, what a memory... I don't even remember that part of
>         the contest. But I need to learn how to concentrate more on my
>         flying and less on what I hear while I fly. One round at the
>         Nats this year I swore I heard a judge say zero during one of
>         my flights (I think my 1st unknown), and from then on (3rd or
>         4th maneuver in) I was a mess. Come to find out, I didn't zero
>         anything, but I didn't know that at the time, so I wasted away
>         a flight for nothing.
>         Now if I can just convince the FAI guys at Jax to try a round
>         of "self-judging" then we can have "fun" with the judging.
>         Although calculating the scores would be a minor issue.
>
>         Regards,
>         Jason
>         www.jasonshulman.com
>         www.shulmanaviation.com
>         www.composite-arf.com
>
>             -----Original Message-----
>             *From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>             [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]*On
>             Behalf Of *twtaylor
>             *Sent:* Monday, August 27, 2007 2:13 PM
>             *To:* 'NSRCA Mailing List'
>             *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?
>
>             This happened years ago, Jason, Joe and Ryan were up here
>             flying a local contest. Jason decided to try his hand at
>             FAI in front of a set of judges. He asked and received
>             permission to do a practice flight in front of said FAI
>             judges. A few of us (My self included) sat back and
>             watched his flight. We went through each maneuver and
>             talking to each other as the flight went along about what
>             was right and wrong and the score for each maneuver. Mind
>             you we were 40’ away from the judges. When Jason landed
>             you could tell he was a bit miffed (more like pissed).
>             Seems our talking to each other could be heard by him and
>             the judges (Confirmed by the judges). I had no idea he
>             could hear us and I apologized to Jason and the judge’s
>             and never did that at a contest again. BTW IIRC He would
>             have won that round. J
>
>             ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>             *From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>             [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On
>             Behalf Of *Woodward, Jim
>             *Sent:* Monday, August 27, 2007 2:08 PM
>             *To:* NSRCA Mailing List
>             *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?
>
>             I heard a story from this years nats where one of the
>             Advanced competitors that was in contention flew a
>             less-than-perfect maneuver, and another pilot who was also
>             in contention (and watching) yelled out an inappropriate
>             remark. I think that audience input or influence is
>             something we should steer away from for precision
>             aerobatics. We certainly do not need it to be quiet like
>             for golf, but direct statements meant to be heard by the
>             judges are not good.
>
>             Although slightly off topic – what I do think we should do
>             is post all raw scores every flight for every pilot (I
>             think this is done for the WC). I think this would provide
>             the following opportunities:
>
>                1. The availability of the raw scores would in itself
>                   represent and INCREDIBLE judges training tool.
>                   Seasoned and new competitor alike could watch
>                   flights together, make comments and discuss, then go
>                   back later and see if what they thought they saw was
>                   in line with the scores for that flight. There is
>                   all kinds of opportunity here to facilitate judging
>                   training (.. ideas welcome).
>                2. Posting of raw scores would allow “judges” to
>                   after-the-fact see how they performed compared to
>                   their judging partners. There is all kinds of good
>                   value that could come from this. Whether noted
>                   privately or discussed between each other, it is
>                   good from time to time to check yourself.
>                3. Posting of raw scores would help keep the honest man
>                   honest. By posting raw scores, I think there would
>                   be a reduction of bias any way you cut it:
>                   Santa-Clausing, Low-balling, “teams”, regionality,
>                   or other bias’ would be removed/reduced if the
>                   person knew ahead of time that the judges scores
>                   would be posted.
>                4. And most importantly, increased “transparency” in
>                   the system helps the seasoned and new comer alike
>                   understand the process of the contest, scoring, and
>                   “how” the 1000, 900, or 800’s came to be. I believe
>                   that no matter whom you are, you want to leave a
>                   contest and feel like you (& everyone) was dealt a
>                   fair hand. Transparency is the key to this.
>                5. OK – last one – it takes “scoring” which is a topic
>                   of much discussion during and after a pattern
>                   contest in case you haven’t heard, away from a
>                   shadowy discussion, and brings to the open this
>                   topic which everyone is already discussing. This
>                   would do a lot to remove ammunition from the
>                   conspiracy theorist and such whom all of our
>                   districts have. Transparency is good J
>
>             I write none of this from the sour-grapes perspective. I
>             love this stuff. I think the potential benefits from
>             posting the raws would out weight the potential bad,
>             provide more transparency for the competitor and also
>             provide judges training.
>
>             Thanks,
>
>             Jim W.
>
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>             ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>             *From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>             [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On
>             Behalf Of *JShulman
>             *Sent:* Monday, August 27, 2007 1:49 PM
>             *To:* NSRCA Mailing List
>             *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?
>
>             Probably the best reason not to have it...lol. It's bad
>             enough when we screw-up... I mean when a pilot screws-up
>             and you hear all the OOOooooohhhhhhhhhhhh's from the
>             crowd. Now just imagine the uproar when someone gets
>             judged for a maneuver that they are doing all wrong! Total
>             Chaos!
>
>             Regards,
>             Jason
>             www.jasonshulman.com
>             www.shulmanaviation.com
>             www.composite-arf.com
>
>                 *On Behalf Of *Derek Koopowitz
>
>                 can you just imagine all the "oohhhss and aahhhs" from
>                 the spectators. :)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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