[NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?
Derek Koopowitz
derekkoopowitz at gmail.com
Mon Aug 27 19:24:54 AKDT 2007
Too funny!
-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Chad
Northeast
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 7:51 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?
However in between pilots Jason could be seen texting like a madman :)
Chad
JShulman wrote:
> Having been one of the judges during this, thankfully Vince's plane
> looked like it was relatively untouched and Lamar's plane was missing
> the stab. When Vince told us that he was "ok" we did ask him to fly
> around and let Lamar land before him. Although shaken, Vince brought
> his plane in like a champ. But ONLY in instances like that would I
> want anyone other than the caller talking.
> And one thing that we all did was turn our phones off when we judged.
> Just common sense/courtesy, or so I thought.
>
> Regards,
> Jason
> www.jasonshulman.com
> www.shulmanaviation.com
> www.composite-arf.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* vicenterc at comcast.net [mailto:vicenterc at comcast.net]
> *Sent:* Monday, August 27, 2007 3:51 PM
> *To:* NSRCA Mailing List; NSRCA Mailing List
> *Cc:* JShulman
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?
>
> Well, sometimes is very good to hear the public and the judges. A
> the Nats this year, I was flying inverted full concentration
> getting ready for the second maneuver in Master. Suddenly, my
> plane started to roll extremely fast to the left. In the first
> split second, I didn't know what is going on. I just cut the
> engine. In the second split second, I hear that someone said "he
> lost the elevator". In that moment, I knew that I had a mid-air
> but I didn't know if that was my elevator. In the third split
> second, I gave full right aileron and the plane stop rolling. I
> started to give power slowly and the judges behind me were very
> helpful to me saying that the my plane was OK and fly around until
> the other plane that lost the elevator landed. We were very lucky
> that we didn't lost the planes but I think other pilots and judges
> were really helpful to get the planes back. I appreciate very much
> th e help and comments from pilots and judges in that particular case.
> Regards,
> --
> Vicente "Vince" Bortone
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "JShulman" <jshulman at cfl.rr.com>
> Wow Tim, what a memory... I don't even remember that part of
> the contest. But I need to learn how to concentrate more on my
> flying and less on what I hear while I fly. One round at the
> Nats this year I swore I heard a judge say zero during one of
> my flights (I think my 1st unknown), and from then on (3rd or
> 4th maneuver in) I was a mess. Come to find out, I didn't zero
> anything, but I didn't know that at the time, so I wasted away
> a flight for nothing.
> Now if I can just convince the FAI guys at Jax to try a round
> of "self-judging" then we can have "fun" with the judging.
> Although calculating the scores would be a minor issue.
>
> Regards,
> Jason
> www.jasonshulman.com
> www.shulmanaviation.com
> www.composite-arf.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]*On
> Behalf Of *twtaylor
> *Sent:* Monday, August 27, 2007 2:13 PM
> *To:* 'NSRCA Mailing List'
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?
>
> This happened years ago, Jason, Joe and Ryan were up here
> flying a local contest. Jason decided to try his hand at
> FAI in front of a set of judges. He asked and received
> permission to do a practice flight in front of said FAI
> judges. A few of us (My self included) sat back and
> watched his flight. We went through each maneuver and
> talking to each other as the flight went along about what
> was right and wrong and the score for each maneuver. Mind
> you we were 40' away from the judges. When Jason landed
> you could tell he was a bit miffed (more like pissed).
> Seems our talking to each other could be heard by him and
> the judges (Confirmed by the judges). I had no idea he
> could hear us and I apologized to Jason and the judge's
> and never did that at a contest again. BTW IIRC He would
> have won that round. J
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
> *From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Woodward, Jim
> *Sent:* Monday, August 27, 2007 2:08 PM
> *To:* NSRCA Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?
>
> I heard a story from this years nats where one of the
> Advanced competitors that was in contention flew a
> less-than-perfect maneuver, and another pilot who was also
> in contention (and watching) yelled out an inappropriate
> remark. I think that audience input or influence is
> something we should steer away from for precision
> aerobatics. We certainly do not need it to be quiet like
> for golf, but direct statements meant to be heard by the
> judges are not good.
>
> Although slightly off topic - what I do think we should do
> is post all raw scores every flight for every pilot (I
> think this is done for the WC). I think this would provide
> the following opportunities:
>
> 1. The availability of the raw scores would in itself
> represent and INCREDIBLE judges training tool.
> Seasoned and new competitor alike could watch
> flights together, make comments and discuss, then go
> back later and see if what they thought they saw was
> in line with the scores for that flight. There is
> all kinds of opportunity here to facilitate judging
> training (.. ideas welcome).
> 2. Posting of raw scores would allow "judges" to
> after-the-fact see how they performed compared to
> their judging partners. There is all kinds of good
> value that could come from this. Whether noted
> privately or discussed between each other, it is
> good from time to time to check yourself.
> 3. Posting of raw scores would help keep the honest man
> honest. By posting raw scores, I think there would
> be a reduction of bias any way you cut it:
> Santa-Clausing, Low-balling, "teams", regionality,
> or other bias' would be removed/reduced if the
> person knew ahead of time that the judges scores
> would be posted.
> 4. And most importantly, increased "transparency" in
> the system helps the seasoned and new comer alike
> understand the process of the contest, scoring, and
> "how" the 1000, 900, or 800's came to be. I believe
> that no matter whom you are, you want to leave a
> contest and feel like you (& everyone) was dealt a
> fair hand. Transparency is the key to this.
> 5. OK - last one - it takes "scoring" which is a topic
> of much discussion during and after a pattern
> contest in case you haven't heard, away from a
> shadowy discussion, and brings to the open this
> topic which everyone is already discussing. This
> would do a lot to remove ammunition from the
> conspiracy theorist and such whom all of our
> districts have. Transparency is good J
>
> I write none of this from the sour-grapes perspective. I
> love this stuff. I think the potential benefits from
> posting the raws would out weight the potential bad,
> provide more transparency for the competitor and also
> provide judges training.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim W.
>
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
> *From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On
> Behalf Of *JShulman
> *Sent:* Monday, August 27, 2007 1:49 PM
> *To:* NSRCA Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?
>
> Probably the best reason not to have it...lol. It's bad
> enough when we screw-up... I mean when a pilot screws-up
> and you hear all the OOOooooohhhhhhhhhhhh's from the
> crowd. Now just imagine the uproar when someone gets
> judged for a maneuver that they are doing all wrong! Total
> Chaos!
>
> Regards,
> Jason
> www.jasonshulman.com
> www.shulmanaviation.com
> www.composite-arf.com
>
> *On Behalf Of *Derek Koopowitz
>
> can you just imagine all the "oohhhss and aahhhs" from
> the spectators. :)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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