[NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?
JShulman
jshulman at cfl.rr.com
Mon Aug 27 18:17:27 AKDT 2007
Having been one of the judges during this, thankfully Vince's plane looked
like it was relatively untouched and Lamar's plane was missing the stab.
When Vince told us that he was "ok" we did ask him to fly around and let
Lamar land before him. Although shaken, Vince brought his plane in like a
champ. But ONLY in instances like that would I want anyone other than the
caller talking.
And one thing that we all did was turn our phones off when we judged. Just
common sense/courtesy, or so I thought.
Regards,
Jason
www.jasonshulman.com
www.shulmanaviation.com
www.composite-arf.com
-----Original Message-----
From: vicenterc at comcast.net [mailto:vicenterc at comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 3:51 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List; NSRCA Mailing List
Cc: JShulman
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?
Well, sometimes is very good to hear the public and the judges. A the
Nats this year, I was flying inverted full concentration getting ready for
the second maneuver in Master. Suddenly, my plane started to roll extremely
fast to the left. In the first split second, I didn't know what is going
on. I just cut the engine. In the second split second, I hear that someone
said "he lost the elevator". In that moment, I knew that I had a mid-air
but I didn't know if that was my elevator. In the third split second, I
gave full right aileron and the plane stop rolling. I started to give power
slowly and the judges behind me were very helpful to me saying that the my
plane was OK and fly around until the other plane that lost the elevator
landed. We were very lucky that we didn't lost the planes but I think other
pilots and judges were really helpful to get the planes back. I appreciate
very much th e help and comments from pilots and judges in that particular
case.
Regards,
--
Vicente "Vince" Bortone
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "JShulman" <jshulman at cfl.rr.com>
Wow Tim, what a memory... I don't even remember that part of the
contest. But I need to learn how to concentrate more on my flying and less
on what I hear while I fly. One round at the Nats this year I swore I heard
a judge say zero during one of my flights (I think my 1st unknown), and from
then on (3rd or 4th maneuver in) I was a mess. Come to find out, I didn't
zero anything, but I didn't know that at the time, so I wasted away a flight
for nothing.
Now if I can just convince the FAI guys at Jax to try a round of
"self-judging" then we can have "fun" with the judging. Although calculating
the scores would be a minor issue.
Regards,
Jason
www.jasonshulman.com
www.shulmanaviation.com
www.composite-arf.com
-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of twtaylor
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 2:13 PM
To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?
This happened years ago, Jason, Joe and Ryan were up here flying a
local contest. Jason decided to try his hand at FAI in front of a set of
judges. He asked and received permission to do a practice flight in front of
said FAI judges. A few of us (My self included) sat back and watched his
flight. We went through each maneuver and talking to each other as the
flight went along about what was right and wrong and the score for each
maneuver. Mind you we were 40’ away from the judges. When Jason landed you
could tell he was a bit miffed (more like pissed). Seems our talking to each
other could be heard by him and the judges (Confirmed by the judges). I had
no idea he could hear us and I apologized to Jason and the judge’s and never
did that at a contest again. BTW IIRC He would have won that round. J
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Woodward, Jim
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 2:08 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?
I heard a story from this years nats where one of the Advanced
competitors that was in contention flew a less-than-perfect maneuver, and
another pilot who was also in contention (and watching) yelled out an
inappropriate remark. I think that audience input or influence is something
we should steer away from for precision aerobatics. We certainly do not
need it to be quiet like for golf, but direct statements meant to be heard
by the judges are not good.
Although slightly off topic – what I do think we should do is post all
raw scores every flight for every pilot (I think this is done for the WC).
I think this would provide the following opportunities:
1.. The availability of the raw scores would in itself represent and
INCREDIBLE judges training tool. Seasoned and new competitor alike could
watch flights together, make comments and discuss, then go back later and
see if what they thought they saw was in line with the scores for that
flight. There is all kinds of opportunity here to facilitate judging
training (.. ideas welcome).
2.. Posting of raw scores would allow “judges” to after-the-fact see
how they performed compared to their judging partners. There is all kinds
of good value that could come from this. Whether noted privately or
discussed between each other, it is good from time to time to check
yourself.
3.. Posting of raw scores would help keep the honest man honest. By
posting raw scores, I think there would be a reduction of bias any way you
cut it: Santa-Clausing, Low-balling, “teams”, regionality, or other bias’
would be removed/reduced if the person knew ahead of time that the judges
scores would be posted.
4.. And most importantly, increased “transparency” in the system
helps the seasoned and new comer alike understand the process of the
contest, scoring, and “how” the 1000, 900, or 800’s came to be. I believe
that no matter whom you are, you want to leave a contest and feel like you
(& everyone) was dealt a fair hand. Transparency is the key to this.
5.. OK – last one – it takes “scoring” which is a topic of much
discussion during and after a pattern contest in case you haven’t heard,
away from a shadowy discussion, and brings to the open this topic which
everyone is already discussing. This would do a lot to remove ammunition
from the conspiracy theorist and such whom all of our districts have.
Transparency is good J
I write none of this from the sour-grapes perspective. I love this
stuff. I think the potential benefits from posting the raws would out
weight the potential bad, provide more transparency for the competitor and
also provide judges training.
Thanks,
Jim W.
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From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of JShulman
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 1:49 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Are we behind the times?
Probably the best reason not to have it...lol. It's bad enough when we
screw-up... I mean when a pilot screws-up and you hear all the
OOOooooohhhhhhhhhhhh's from the crowd. Now just imagine the uproar when
someone gets judged for a maneuver that they are doing all wrong! Total
Chaos!
Regards,
Jason
www.jasonshulman.com
www.shulmanaviation.com
www.composite-arf.com
On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz
can you just imagine all the "oohhhss and aahhhs" from the
spectators. :)
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