[NSRCA-discussion] [Fwd: Proposal]

John Gayer jgghome at comcast.net
Thu Aug 23 13:14:12 AKDT 2007


Del,
Make a proposal to add to the list. The list I put out there is not closed.
 I can only think that we should always be inclusive at the field and 
the contests. Make the guy who comes out to one contest a year feel a 
part of the group. Take the time to watch him fly and push some 
suggestions at him on how to improve.
John

Del K. Rykert wrote:

> These are all great but, I see nothing changing to stop driving away 
> the casual competitor. If the organization and sport wants to truly 
> grow that area is long overdue. We need their numbers and help at 
> fielding contests.
>  
>     /Del// /
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Robert L. Beaubien <mailto:rob at koolsoft.com>
>     *To:* NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>     *Sent:* Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:42 AM
>     *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] [Fwd: Proposal]
>
>     Richard / John, See my comments inline.
>
>      
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>     <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
>     [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
>     richard wallace
>     Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 7:28 PM
>     To: NSRCA Mailing List
>     Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] [Fwd: Proposal]
>
>      
>
>     > Gotta say though, I'm just not a fan of a national database for
>
>     > recording Pattern results. I don't really understand what
>     problem this
>
>     > is intended to fix.
>
>      
>
>     *If I read what John proposed correctly, this is to give
>     additional value and incentive to being a NSRCA member.  Being
>     able to participate in a nationwide ranking system is appealing to
>     me.*
>
>      
>
>     > Of course, I'm in the apparent minority that believes that our
>     current
>
>     > self-policing system of advancement points is fine, ESPECIALLY now
>
>     > that points only count for four years. ...
>
>      
>
>     *I agree with you.  I think peer pressure to keep people from
>     Sandbagging is the best medicine and forced promotions is not
>     needed.  *
>
>      
>
>     > 2. I don't know that I'd be really interested in seeing my 'national
>
>     > ranking'  -- I've  found out enough at the Nats the past several
>
>     > years... and 37/44 in Masters tells me enough about where I
>     stand... !
>
>      
>
>     *I know I would be interested in my "national" rank as I try to
>     progress through the classes.*
>
>      
>
>     > and one more thing - do we have any volunteers for setting up and
>
>     > adminstering this national system? That's not a trivial question or
>
>     > issue, especially in a world where (at least some) NSRCA
>     officers are
>
>     > in their positions not because they sought the job in order to be in
>
>     > charge of stuff, but because there was a necessary job to be
>     done, and
>
>     > no one else was willing to step up to do it... I do the Champs
>
>     > standings for my District and mostly enjoy it, but it IS a manual
>
>     > process. Understand about hooks to automated scoring systems like
>
>     > PACSS, but it'll still take initial work and sustainment and then
>
>     > fixes to keep it going at the national level... and there are still
>
>     > places around the country that still do contest scoring manually...
>
>      
>
>     *I would be interested in volunteering my services towards this
>     endeavor.  What would be needed would be a standardized scoring
>     program used by all CD's that has upload capabilities to a server,
>     and a website to present the information to the members.  As a
>     software developer, it is a project I would like to participate in
>     if it were to see the light of day.  I would also be willing to
>     donate the bandwidth and servers necessary to make this happen.*
>
>      
>
>     > Agree about helping Sportsman and maybe Intermediates be mentored at
>
>     > contests- we usually don't have a formal system for that, and more
>
>     > would certainly be better.
>
>      
>
>     *This already happens to a great extent in D7.  When I showed up
>     at a pattern contest, Troy Newman took it upon himself to mentor
>     me and I feel very lucky to have his experience to guide me.  A
>     formal rule/suggestion/whatever towards this end is certainly not
>     a bad thing.*
>
>      
>
>     Also am in violent agreement about the need to grow Pattern at the
>
>     grass-roots level one new guy at a time - and most of us need to plow
>
>     that field more thoroughly too.
>
>      
>
>     Good stuff - keep it coming!
>
>      
>
>      
>
>     - Robert Beaubien
>
>     - AMA #618061
>
>     - NSRCA #4121
>
>     -
>
>      
>
>      
>
>      
>
>     > ----- Original Message -----
>
>     > From: John Gayer
>
>     > To: NSRCA Mailing List
>
>     > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 7:12 PM
>
>     > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] [Fwd: Proposal]
>
>     > 
>
>     > 
>
>     > I'd like to present three proposals that might appeal to a few
>     if not the
>
>     > many....
>
>     > Modified from the original proposal . Apparently not many saw
>     it. The first
>
>     > one has been added
>
>     > Comments?
>
>     > John
>
>     > NSRCA 632
>
>     > 
>
>     > Revive the practice of assigning mentors to Sportsman and
>     Intermediate
>
>     > flyers
>
>     > 
>
>     > At contests, assign an experienced competitor to mentor, call
>     and advise the
>
>     > Sportsman/ Intermediate flyers. This is nothing new, but should
>     be a part of
>
>     > every contest. We should try to provide a connection that will
>     last past the
>
>     > contest.
>
>     > As I see it, there are four issues that drasticaly affect the
>     ability of
>
>     > these flyers to compete effectively: aircraft trimming,
>     execessive throws,
>
>     > wings level and centering(also known as flying the airplane, not
>     letting the
>
>     > airplane fly you).
>
>     > These flyers have shown the initiative to come out and compete.
>     We owe them
>
>     > (and ourselves) all the help we can throw at them.
>
>     > 
>
>     > 
>
>     > Create a National Database for Pattern
>
>     > 
>
>     > The database must contain the raw scores of all flights for all
>     competitors
>
>     > by class. The only thing normalized scores are good for is
>     finding the right
>
>     >  finish order for each class at a contest. Raw scores are much
>     better for
>
>     > comparing results even at a contest. For example I finish round
>     one with a
>
>     > 930 and round two with a 985, both to competitor A. Now did I
>     fly a lot
>
>     > better in round two(I thought I did)  or did competitor A flop a
>     stall turn
>
>     > in the figure M in round 2.
>
>     > Anyway once you have the raw scores by competitor and class, you
>     can do the
>
>     > following:
>
>     > 
>
>     > Create a National Ranking for each class based on average points per
>
>     > maneuver. Once this is in place and on line, we will have a
>     reason for
>
>     > pattern competitors to join NSRCA. you can't tell me that there
>     wouldn't be
>
>     > a lot of interest in seeing who is hot around the country and
>     how you stack
>
>     > up against the competition. I know, the judging isn't always
>     equal but
>
>     > that's always been true and we have to live with it.
>
>     > The data available on each competitor would include contests
>     entered,
>
>     > placing, advance points earned. The districts could extract
>     whatever data is
>
>     > required to ascertain the district champions. We could archive
>     previous
>
>     > years as well.
>
>     > Other ways to specify advancement in class become available,
>     percentage of
>
>     > average FAI score, even eventually moving the 10 top-rated
>     pilots up a
>
>     > class. Possibilities are endless when you have the data.
>
>     > Since the database would only be open to NSRCA members, if you
>     want to track
>
>     > your National standing, joining NSRCA would be a must. If you
>     want to see
>
>     > what the guy nobody heard of that just rolled in from out of
>     district has
>
>     > accomplished, look him up. We've been looking for reasons  to
>     join NSRCA, I
>
>     > feel this is one that could be big and would be worth some
>     investment in
>
>     > time and money. I would be willing to help with such a project
>     although I
>
>     > don't feel like I could take it on by myself.
>
>     > 
>
>     > Redirect the focus to our international team competition through
>
>     > modification of the advancement system
>
>     > 
>
>     > 
>
>     > Modify the advancement process to be consistent through all
>     classes from
>
>     > Sportsman through to F3A. See section two for possible
>     advancement criteria
>
>     > Advancement can be forced by the advancement criteria(see
>     section 2) or
>
>     > voluntary.
>
>     > The first year in a new and higher class is an option year. At
>     the end of
>
>     > the option year you can downselect one class for any reason.
>     This has the
>
>     > advantage of being able to try out the higher class for a year
>     without
>
>     > committing your entire pattern career. If you discover that the
>     next class
>
>     > is beyond your means( time, money or talent) then you option
>     down the
>
>     > following year. If you absolutely refuse to fly your new class,
>     then perhaps
>
>     > you could use the time and money to reintroduce your self to
>     your wife,
>
>     > girlfriend, etc. If you need a goal for the year, focus on
>     making your
>
>     > rudder commands instinctive, learn to fly a helicopter, learn to
>     fly rolling
>
>     > circles. You would probably come back a better pattern flyer
>     than when you
>
>     > left.
>
>     > 
>
>     > 
>
>     > 
>
>     > 
>
>     > 
>
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>
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>
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>
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