[NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?

Adrien L Terrenoire amad2terry at juno.com
Thu Aug 16 01:43:47 AKDT 2007 

Fred: Once again you are missing a very important point. AMA does NOT set
our rules, our competitors do!
The rules are only enacted that are submitted by members who have the
interest to try and change things, as it seems you do. If you think your
ideas should be the rule of the land, go thru the proper proceedures and
get them approved. It is part of our democracy, and how things do get
changed.

Terry T.
 
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:17:22 -0500 "Fred Huber" <fhhuber at clearwire.net>
writes:
> You can submit a rules change request for FAI... through the AMA.
> 
> There is a process.
> 
> AMA is the US's representative organization to the FAI
> 
> We EACH have as much say as any Pattern competitor in France, 
> Germany, 
> Argentina... wherever.
> 
> We judge some things differently in AMA than in international FAI 
> for one 
> reason... AMA is not being very bright.  The AMA definitions should 
> meet the 
> international ones.
> 
> ANY TIME THA AMA RULES DON'T AGREE WITH FAI.. all we are doing is 
> making it 
> hard for US competitors to even TRY to compete internationally.
> 
> WE SHOULD have some of the premeir tems in all FAI events...  Top 3 
> place 
> finishes across the board.  We have the people with the skills...
> But AMA goofed and has some rules that make some of our top 
> competitor's 
> planes INELIGIBLE for international competition...
> THAT WAS PURE STUPID
> 
> Somehow.. we managed to keep Pattern's lower class rules in line 
> ENOUGH with 
> FAI that we haven't totally SCREWED our team...
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "chris moon" <cjm767driver at hotmail.com>
> To: <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 9:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class 
> selection?
> 
> 
> > Guys, the  short answer is that Masters is an AMA class and FAI is 
> not.
> > Don't believe me? Submit a rules change for FAI to the AMA and see 
> what
> > they say....don't submit to us, that's not our event.  Need more 
> proof?
> > Why do some maneuvers get judged differently in Masters and FAI 
> (ex:
> > take off/ landing)?  Why? because they are governed by different
> > entities and are different events.  If someone wants to fly 
> Masters
> > forever, so be it.  It IS a destination class. One does not have 
> to move
> > out of Masters...EVER. Does is make it tough for the guys moving 
> into
> > Masters?  You bet.  I moved up to Masters this year and found 
> myself
> > flying against guys who have been in Masters over a decade.  
> Guess
> > what?  I have learned more this year flying against that level of
> > competition than ever before.  If some wants to collect trophies 
> in
> > Masters, that is their prerogative.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > Fred Huber wrote:
> >>Well...
> >>
> >>He is the one who proclaimed that he was going to stay in the 
> class until
> >>he won a particular event... which how many people have EVER won?  
> Out of
> >>how many who have competed?
> >>
> >>Sorry... the world does not owe anyone any particular trophy.
> >>
> >>You say he's second best... maybe thats the best he ever gets.
> >>
> >>Every other competitor who goes to the NATS and flys in Masters 
> wants to 
> >>be
> >>the best too.  Most will NEVER make it.
> >>
> >>Most would be damn glad to be called second best in this sport...
> >>
> >>Reality is not politically correct.
> >>
> >>This is not the special olympics where everyone gets the same 
> trophy:
> >>"Participant"
> >>
> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Frederick"
> >><mjfrederick at cox.net>
> >>To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8:17 PM
> >>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class 
> selection?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Fred,
> >>>The person who made the comment about not moving up until winning 
> the 
> >>>Nats
> >>>was Arch Stafford. He's a very nice guy, and according to the 
> Nats finish
> >>>this year, he's probably the second-best Masters pilot in the 
> nation. He
> >>>wants to be the best before he moves up to F3A, it's a personal 
> goal he
> >>>has
> >>>set and well within the bounds of the rules. Having met Arch, and 
> knowing
> >>>what a decent guy he is, I frankly take offense at you blatantly 
> calling
> >>>him
> >>>out as a sandbagger. I don't know one person who flys Masters in 
> D6 who
> >>>would call him that, and those are the people he competes with on 
> a
> >>>regular
> >>>basis... There is currently no relevant points accumulation in 
> Masters
> >>>other
> >>>than for district championships as it is the highest level of AMA 
> 
> >>>Pattern.
> >>>I
> >>>completely agree with the point someone else made that stated we 
> should
> >>>not
> >>>force someone to a level of competition that is out of the 
> control of the
> >>>AMA Competition Regs. If I were ever in a situation that forced 
> me to 
> >>>move
> >>>into F3A competition, I'd probably stop flying pattern. Full 
> turnaround
> >>>patterns was a hard enough pill to swallow. F3A has too many 
> maneuvers
> >>>that,
> >>>while very beautiful when performed well, I don't personally 
> consider to
> >>>be
> >>>precision aerobatics. Snaps and spins are enough of a stretch.
> >>>
> >>>Matt
> >>>
> >>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Huber" 
> <fhhuber at clearwire.net>
> >>>To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>>Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:56 PM
> >>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class 
> selection?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>No sour grapes here about not being able to win...  I don't ever 
> expect
> >>>>to
> >>>>accumulate the points needed to force advancement from 
> Sportsman.  The
> >>>>hand-eye coordination just isn't there.
> >>>>
> >>>>The only way I'll take 3rd place in Sportsman is if there's only 
> 2 
> >>>>others
> >>>>flying.  I'm just in Pattern for the flight discipline... and to 
> be
> >>>>around
> >>>>people who can help me quit breaking airplanes.
> >>>>
> >>>>I will probably move to Intermediate next year.. becaue I have 
> learned
> >>>>almost as much as I can from the Sportman sequence.... I'll 
> place DEAD
> >>>>LAST
> >>>>FOREVER.  I'll fly at the NATS in about 3 or 4 years too.
> >>>>
> >>>>I do see the hypocracy of people complaining about not being 
> competitive
> >>>>if
> >>>>they move up... and sitting firmly in the lower class for years 
> so they
> >>>>can
> >>>>always win...
> >>>>
> >>>>"I won't move up until I WIN the NATS" is why they came up with 
> the 
> >>>>point
> >>>>system to force people to move up... sandbagger.  (not even 
> bothering to
> >>>>look up who made the referenced post...)
> >>>>
> >>>>The only way I'll take 3rd place in Sportsman is if there's only 
> 2 
> >>>>others
> >>>>flying.
> >>>>
> >>>>I take offense at rules that are unfair.
> >>>>
> >>>>I take offense at people who revise the rules to suit thier 
> personal
> >>>>agendas.
> >>>>
> >>>>----- Original Message ----- From: <seefo at san.rr.com>
> >>>>To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>>>Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:40 PM
> >>>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class 
> selection?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>I know Glen.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>My question was more rhetorical than anything else, and I 
> really just
> >>>>>put it out there to try to clarify the issue. There seems to be 
> a
> >>>>>division amongst people who want Masters to be that stepping 
> stone
> >>>>>class verses those who want Masters to be a destination all by 
> itself
> >>>>>(which it currently is).
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I do think the idea of a progression rule whereby a pilot who 
> does not
> >>>>>meet a given criteria has the option of moving down. I 
> personally like
> >>>>>the 'qualification' bar idea. For example, a pilot moves up to 
> Masters
> >>>>>from Advanced. In their 1st contest, if they are unable to 
> achieve an
> E normalized score of at least 800, they are given the option of
> >>>>>moving back to Advanced. The 800 number is arbitrary and used 
> for
> >>>>>example only.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I guess my biggest problem with these threads, is they give me 
> a big
> >>>>>sense of sour grapes from people as I read them talk 
> continually about
> >>>>>not being able to win. Last I checked this was competition, and 
> if you
> >>>>>want to win, you perfect your own flying until you can do it 
> better
> >>>>>than everyone else. You don't tell the guy beating you to go 
> play
> >>>>>somewhere else so you can feel good about yourself.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Of course I could be completely wrong. It wouldn't be the 1st 
> time.
> >>>>>(just ask my wife)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>-Doug
> >>>>>
> >>>>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>From: Glen Watson <gwatson11 at houston.rr.com>
> >>>>>Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:24 pm
> >>>>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class 
> selection?
> >>>>>To: 'NSRCA Mailing List' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>There is no mandatory advancement from Masters...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>The following was copied from the current AMA rulebook...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>8.2.5. There is no mandatory advancement into FAI from the 
> Masters
> >>>>>>class.Contestants may enter their current AMA class or the 
> FAI
> >>>>>>class at any
> >>>>>>contest but not both.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>~Glen
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> >>>>>>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf 
> Of
> >>>>>>seefo at san.rr.com
> >>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:51 PM
> >>>>>>To: NSRCA Mailing List
> >>>>>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class 
> selection?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>It seems to me the real question that must be answered (yet 
> again)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>is:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Is Masters a destination class or not?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>-Doug
> >>>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>>NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>>>>>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> >>>>>>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>>NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>>>>>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> >>>>>>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>>>>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> >>>>>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>--
> >>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >>>>>Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release 
> Date:
> >>>>>8/14/2007
> >>>>>5:19 PM
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>>>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> >>>>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> >>>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >>>Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 
> 
> >>>8/14/2007
> >>>5:19 PM
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> >>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > See what you're getting into.before you go there
> > 
>
http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507
> >
> >
> 
> 
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> 
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> 
> 
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> 
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 
> 8/14/2007 
> 5:19 PM
> 
> _______________________________________________
> SRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> 
>

More information about the NSRCA-discussion mailing list