[NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?

Fred Huber fhhuber at clearwire.net
Wed Aug 15 20:30:14 AKDT 2007


Someone who will never be affected by a rule has no reason to manipulate the 
rules in their favor.

I never said you were not within the rules as they stand.

I said I think the rules are wrong.

And you are the one who said you were going to camp until you get the 
trophy.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <rcpattern at stx.rr.com>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?


> Fred,
>
> I didn't just magically wake up and suddenly finish in the top 8 in
> Masters.  The first year I flew masters, I finished 25th...then made
> the finals the next.  I have improved a little each year, except last
> year, when I had a mechanical problem in the finals.  I go out and
> practice as often as I can to improve.  I also try to do whatever I
> can to help anyone I can.  I had a LOT of help when I was learning and
> try to pass that along to others.  I love pattern, and love to do what
> I can to support it.  I have rebuilt engines for guys that I barely
> knew.  I have loaned guys planes, parts, whatever to get them in the
> air.  That is one thing about pattern that I love.  Guys will do
> whatever it takes to get you back in the air so you can compete
> against them.  Last year at the masters finals, I was running low on
> time trying to get my pipe system fixed and basically EVERY other
> competitor was trying to help, even offering to let me fly their
> planes to get the round in.  I'll be ho
> nest, i've taken a little bit of offense to some of your statements.
> You have made it sound like I was handed everything I have, and just
> come back each year, waiting on someone to hand my NATS trophy.  You
> have yet to fly Masters, yet, you seem to know exactly what it takes
> to be competitive or the attitude of guys who fly it.  I unfortunately
> didnt get to fly near as much this year as I would have liked.  I know
> for a fact with the amount of practice I had this year, I'd have been
> hammered in FAI.  It is a totally different level.  I know Glen worked
> his tail off as well over the years.  As well as all of the other guys
> that have worked and worked to keep getting better. No one handed us
> top 2 finishes at the NATS, and just because we come back, doesnt
> guarrantee us anything.  This year, EVERYONE flew a new Masters
> sequence.  We had to go out and learn it just like everyone else did.
>
> Arch
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Fred Huber <fhhuber at clearwire.net>
> Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 9:58 pm
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?
> To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>
>> Why re-write (and possibly incorporate typos and other errors)
>> rules that can be gotten from another booklet (which is also
>> available for download from the AMA website...)
>>
>> "included by reference" is a fairly common practice.
>>
>> AMA rules don't go into defining what  kilogram or a pound is...
>> they figure you can look it up if you don't know.
>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>  From: Ken Thompson
>>  To: NSRCA Mailing List
>>  Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:27 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?
>>
>>
>>  I see a numerical designation, for contests only, however there
>> are no rules, regulations or maneuver designations pertaining to
>> 406 in the AMA rule book, except that the FAI class will fly
>> according to the current FAI RC Aerobatics(F3A) rules.
>>    ----- Original Message ----- 
>>    From: Tim Taylor
>>    To: NSRCA Mailing List
>>    Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:01 PM
>>    Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class
>> selection?
>>
>>    FAI is class 406, an AMA Class, Just checked the rule book.
>>
>>     http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/rulebooks/RC%20Aerobatics.pdf
>>
>>    Fred Huber <fhhuber at clearwire.net> wrote:
>>      In that case... there's no support for offering FAI class at
>> an AMA sanctioned event.
>>
>>      Its not an AMA class.  Have a seperate contest.
>>
>>      That worm turns 2 ways.
>>        ----- Original Message ----- 
>>        From: Ken Thompson
>>        To: NSRCA Mailing List
>>        Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:57 PM
>>        Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class
>> selection?
>>
>>        The bottom line is this...the AMA has 4 classes, the top
>> level being Masters.  FAI is an international F3A class, not a AMA
>> class..."in my opinion" there can never be a mandatory progression
>> from an AMA SIG class to an international class.
>>
>>        As for your question, my logic should, and does, apply to
>> every class controlled by the AMA...which is what I'm talking about.
>>
>>        Ken
>>          ----- Original Message ----- 
>>          From: John Gayer
>>          To: NSRCA Mailing List
>>          Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:38 PM
>>          Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in
>> class selection?
>>
>>
>>          Why does this apply to every class except Masters??
>>          Aren't there better flyers available to learn from in
>> FAI?  :)
>>          John
>>
>>          Ken Thompson wrote:
>> Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!!!    You will only get better
>> if you do one of two things,    1.  Fly against people that are
>> better than you, obviously paying attention   to their flights.
>> 2.  Have a pilot that is better than you willing to coach you.
>> I've been blessed with having both...any contest I go to in D6
>> will have   pilots that are better  than I am, and I have Archie
>> as a coach to help me through the little   things.    BTW:  I
>> fully expect to be flying Masters in 6 or 7 years.  That will put
>> me   at 54 or 55 years old when I make the move.    Personally I
>> have no desire to go to contests and come in 1st or 2nd on a
>> regular basis, AND stay in that  class...it simply won't make me a
>> better pilot.  My goal is to
>> get better   every year, with hard work and patience,  it will
>> happen.    Ken      ----- Original Message -----   From:
>> <rcpattern at stx.rr.com>  To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-
>> discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:55
>> PM  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class
>> selection?        I take exception to this.  FAI and Masters are
>> not related.  I have  been flying masters several years, finishing
>> as high as second this  year at the NATS.  Yes, I'm coming back
>> next year in Masters.  I have  a goal of winning the nats before I
>> move up.  I can be realistic...at  some point with enough practice
>> I might be able to crack the finals in  FAI at the NATS, but I'm
>> smart enough to know that realistically  winning FAI isnt going to
>> happen.  I
>> would also argue that the guys  that have been flying masters for
>> years, just raise the bar.  I know  in different areas I've flown
>> around the country, these are the guys  that make guys fly better.
>> Show up in District 6 sometime, and fly  Masters...you'll
>> definitely get better.  6 of the top 10 at the NATS  were D6.  The
>> means, guy that finished in the top 10 at the NATS in  what is
>> probably top to bottom the most competitive class have trouble
>> getting wood at a local contest.  I can promise you though, the
>> guys  that fly here have greatly  improved their flying than they
>> would have in other parts of the  country.  Glen has set the bar
>> here for a while, and I know the other  guys are pushing to catch
>> him, and if you look now at local contest  scores, it is getting
>> closer.  At any given time down here in D6, I'd  say 6 or 7 guys
>> can take a round in masters.  Now that makes it fun. I  know when
>> I was flying in D4 last year.  Every contest I went to, was  Verne
>> K, and
>> Steve Miller....I knew I'd better put up great flights  every
>> flight and this makes you a better pilot.  I think you should  try
>> moving up...take a year of the low 900's, and then see where you
>> are the following year.  I bet you start moving up and before you
>> know  it you would be right there in the mix.  This is a
>> competitive  activity and the only way you improve is flying
>> against people who are  better than you.    Arch      ----- 
>> Original Message -----  From: John Gayer <jgghome at comcast.net>
>> Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:41 pm  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-
>> discussion] More flexibility in class selection?  To: NSRCA
>> Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>        Ron,  I
>> take exception to those rules. There should be only one
>> destination  class. Why shouldn't
>> there be a mandatory move from Masters to  F3A? They  are just
>> two patterns with a natural progression as there is  between
>> Advanced and Masters.  Parking and sandbagging is a mental state,
>> not a rules violation.  john    Ron Van Putte wrote:          The
>> Master class is the top AMA class and there is no mandatory
>>  move        from the Master class to F3A, so how can there be
>> "parkers" or  "sandbaggers"?    Ron Van Putte    On Aug 15, 2007,
>> at 2:10 PM, John Gayer wrote:            how about changing the
>> AMA advancemant rule and keep it very            simple?>> Your
>> first contest of the year will determine your class  for the
>> year. You may go up one class at any time during
>> the year but            may not        go back down during the
>> year. At the start of the next year you            may        drop
>> back one class at your option, stay where you are or go up
>>   a class.        This is simple enough that your fellow
>> competitiors will know            if you        are following the
>> rules. It will also be up to your fellow  competitiors to insure
>> that you are not sandbagging.  I also feel strongly that
>> sandbagging in Masters should not be  allowed. If you disregard
>> Sportsman, then
>> half of the classes            allow        parking. Obviously,
>> F3A has to be a parking lot but I see no            reason
>> to allow this behavior in Masters. As a competant advanced
>>   pilot of        somewhat advanced years, I have very little
>> interest in moving            to        Masters in order to spend
>> the rest of my pattern years trying            to        break 900
>> against the
>> parkers.  I fail to see the logic in having two destination
>> classes.            Shouldn't        we all aspire to progress to
>> FAI? The current Masters schedule            is        designed as
>> a stepping stone to Masters. Let's use it that way.    John Gayer
>> NSRCA 632      BUDDYonRC at aol.com wrote:              There was a
>> proposal on the last rules cycle that would allow              a
>>     person to move up and test his ability then move back if he
>>
>> had not        attained the skills required for the higher class.
>> I              personally        think it is a good idea and I
>> also see no need for the point              system        like
>> someone said if someone abuses the privilege we can
>> solicit        Earl and four other guys his size to take him
>> behind the barn
>> and        splain to him why he will be moving up. I believe peer
>>             pressure is        all the control we need.  I think
>> this is worth a try.  For those who have the ability and desire to
>> achieve a spot at              the        top I don't see that we
>> have a problem.  Buddy        -------------------------------------
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