[NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?
Fred Huber
fhhuber at clearwire.net
Wed Aug 15 20:30:14 AKDT 2007
Someone who will never be affected by a rule has no reason to manipulate the
rules in their favor.
I never said you were not within the rules as they stand.
I said I think the rules are wrong.
And you are the one who said you were going to camp until you get the
trophy.
----- Original Message -----
From: <rcpattern at stx.rr.com>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?
> Fred,
>
> I didn't just magically wake up and suddenly finish in the top 8 in
> Masters. The first year I flew masters, I finished 25th...then made
> the finals the next. I have improved a little each year, except last
> year, when I had a mechanical problem in the finals. I go out and
> practice as often as I can to improve. I also try to do whatever I
> can to help anyone I can. I had a LOT of help when I was learning and
> try to pass that along to others. I love pattern, and love to do what
> I can to support it. I have rebuilt engines for guys that I barely
> knew. I have loaned guys planes, parts, whatever to get them in the
> air. That is one thing about pattern that I love. Guys will do
> whatever it takes to get you back in the air so you can compete
> against them. Last year at the masters finals, I was running low on
> time trying to get my pipe system fixed and basically EVERY other
> competitor was trying to help, even offering to let me fly their
> planes to get the round in. I'll be ho
> nest, i've taken a little bit of offense to some of your statements.
> You have made it sound like I was handed everything I have, and just
> come back each year, waiting on someone to hand my NATS trophy. You
> have yet to fly Masters, yet, you seem to know exactly what it takes
> to be competitive or the attitude of guys who fly it. I unfortunately
> didnt get to fly near as much this year as I would have liked. I know
> for a fact with the amount of practice I had this year, I'd have been
> hammered in FAI. It is a totally different level. I know Glen worked
> his tail off as well over the years. As well as all of the other guys
> that have worked and worked to keep getting better. No one handed us
> top 2 finishes at the NATS, and just because we come back, doesnt
> guarrantee us anything. This year, EVERYONE flew a new Masters
> sequence. We had to go out and learn it just like everyone else did.
>
> Arch
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Fred Huber <fhhuber at clearwire.net>
> Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 9:58 pm
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?
> To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>
>> Why re-write (and possibly incorporate typos and other errors)
>> rules that can be gotten from another booklet (which is also
>> available for download from the AMA website...)
>>
>> "included by reference" is a fairly common practice.
>>
>> AMA rules don't go into defining what kilogram or a pound is...
>> they figure you can look it up if you don't know.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Ken Thompson
>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?
>>
>>
>> I see a numerical designation, for contests only, however there
>> are no rules, regulations or maneuver designations pertaining to
>> 406 in the AMA rule book, except that the FAI class will fly
>> according to the current FAI RC Aerobatics(F3A) rules.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Tim Taylor
>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:01 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class
>> selection?
>>
>> FAI is class 406, an AMA Class, Just checked the rule book.
>>
>> http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/rulebooks/RC%20Aerobatics.pdf
>>
>> Fred Huber <fhhuber at clearwire.net> wrote:
>> In that case... there's no support for offering FAI class at
>> an AMA sanctioned event.
>>
>> Its not an AMA class. Have a seperate contest.
>>
>> That worm turns 2 ways.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Ken Thompson
>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class
>> selection?
>>
>> The bottom line is this...the AMA has 4 classes, the top
>> level being Masters. FAI is an international F3A class, not a AMA
>> class..."in my opinion" there can never be a mandatory progression
>> from an AMA SIG class to an international class.
>>
>> As for your question, my logic should, and does, apply to
>> every class controlled by the AMA...which is what I'm talking about.
>>
>> Ken
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: John Gayer
>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in
>> class selection?
>>
>>
>> Why does this apply to every class except Masters??
>> Aren't there better flyers available to learn from in
>> FAI? :)
>> John
>>
>> Ken Thompson wrote:
>> Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!!! You will only get better
>> if you do one of two things, 1. Fly against people that are
>> better than you, obviously paying attention to their flights.
>> 2. Have a pilot that is better than you willing to coach you.
>> I've been blessed with having both...any contest I go to in D6
>> will have pilots that are better than I am, and I have Archie
>> as a coach to help me through the little things. BTW: I
>> fully expect to be flying Masters in 6 or 7 years. That will put
>> me at 54 or 55 years old when I make the move. Personally I
>> have no desire to go to contests and come in 1st or 2nd on a
>> regular basis, AND stay in that class...it simply won't make me a
>> better pilot. My goal is to
>> get better every year, with hard work and patience, it will
>> happen. Ken ----- Original Message ----- From:
>> <rcpattern at stx.rr.com> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-
>> discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:55
>> PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class
>> selection? I take exception to this. FAI and Masters are
>> not related. I have been flying masters several years, finishing
>> as high as second this year at the NATS. Yes, I'm coming back
>> next year in Masters. I have a goal of winning the nats before I
>> move up. I can be realistic...at some point with enough practice
>> I might be able to crack the finals in FAI at the NATS, but I'm
>> smart enough to know that realistically winning FAI isnt going to
>> happen. I
>> would also argue that the guys that have been flying masters for
>> years, just raise the bar. I know in different areas I've flown
>> around the country, these are the guys that make guys fly better.
>> Show up in District 6 sometime, and fly Masters...you'll
>> definitely get better. 6 of the top 10 at the NATS were D6. The
>> means, guy that finished in the top 10 at the NATS in what is
>> probably top to bottom the most competitive class have trouble
>> getting wood at a local contest. I can promise you though, the
>> guys that fly here have greatly improved their flying than they
>> would have in other parts of the country. Glen has set the bar
>> here for a while, and I know the other guys are pushing to catch
>> him, and if you look now at local contest scores, it is getting
>> closer. At any given time down here in D6, I'd say 6 or 7 guys
>> can take a round in masters. Now that makes it fun. I know when
>> I was flying in D4 last year. Every contest I went to, was Verne
>> K, and
>> Steve Miller....I knew I'd better put up great flights every
>> flight and this makes you a better pilot. I think you should try
>> moving up...take a year of the low 900's, and then see where you
>> are the following year. I bet you start moving up and before you
>> know it you would be right there in the mix. This is a
>> competitive activity and the only way you improve is flying
>> against people who are better than you. Arch -----
>> Original Message ----- From: John Gayer <jgghome at comcast.net>
>> Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:41 pm Subject: Re: [NSRCA-
>> discussion] More flexibility in class selection? To: NSRCA
>> Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Ron, I
>> take exception to those rules. There should be only one
>> destination class. Why shouldn't
>> there be a mandatory move from Masters to F3A? They are just
>> two patterns with a natural progression as there is between
>> Advanced and Masters. Parking and sandbagging is a mental state,
>> not a rules violation. john Ron Van Putte wrote: The
>> Master class is the top AMA class and there is no mandatory
>> move from the Master class to F3A, so how can there be
>> "parkers" or "sandbaggers"? Ron Van Putte On Aug 15, 2007,
>> at 2:10 PM, John Gayer wrote: how about changing the
>> AMA advancemant rule and keep it very simple?>> Your
>> first contest of the year will determine your class for the
>> year. You may go up one class at any time during
>> the year but may not go back down during the
>> year. At the start of the next year you may drop
>> back one class at your option, stay where you are or go up
>> a class. This is simple enough that your fellow
>> competitiors will know if you are following the
>> rules. It will also be up to your fellow competitiors to insure
>> that you are not sandbagging. I also feel strongly that
>> sandbagging in Masters should not be allowed. If you disregard
>> Sportsman, then
>> half of the classes allow parking. Obviously,
>> F3A has to be a parking lot but I see no reason
>> to allow this behavior in Masters. As a competant advanced
>> pilot of somewhat advanced years, I have very little
>> interest in moving to Masters in order to spend
>> the rest of my pattern years trying to break 900
>> against the
>> parkers. I fail to see the logic in having two destination
>> classes. Shouldn't we all aspire to progress to
>> FAI? The current Masters schedule is designed as
>> a stepping stone to Masters. Let's use it that way. John Gayer
>> NSRCA 632 BUDDYonRC at aol.com wrote: There was a
>> proposal on the last rules cycle that would allow a
>> person to move up and test his ability then move back if he
>>
>> had not attained the skills required for the higher class.
>> I personally think it is a good idea and I
>> also see no need for the point system like
>> someone said if someone abuses the privilege we can
>> solicit Earl and four other guys his size to take him
>> behind the barn
>> and splain to him why he will be moving up. I believe peer
>> pressure is all the control we need. I think
>> this is worth a try. For those who have the ability and desire to
>> achieve a spot at the top I don't see that we
>> have a problem. Buddy -------------------------------------
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