[NSRCA-discussion] APPARENT GEOMETRY (PARALLAXED VIEW)

Tue Apr 10 05:55:40 AKDT 2007

Just to clarify, I do realize our descriptions are referenced to a plane
parallel to the flightline.  Thus the maneuvers are distorted from the
judges’ perspective AND also from the pilots’ perspective.

Richard

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From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard Lewis
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 8:35 AM
To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] APPARENT GEOMETRY (PARALLAXED VIEW)

I downloaded a judging training manual for CL stunt flying and the rulebook
descriptions.  These guys have an extreme case of the distortion to the
judges’ viewpoint due to the hemispherical flight envelope.  Their geometry
is described and flown from the pilot’s perspective.  Loops look like
circles to the pilot and ellipses to the judges.  In the training manual I
found, each maneuver is drawn with the accurate rulebook geometry from the
pilot’s perspective overlaid with an expected distorted figure from the
judges’ point of view.

IMO...this is a judge training issue.

Richard

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From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Del K. Rykert
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 7:38 AM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] APPARENT GEOMETRY (PARALLAXED VIEW)

What I did to help train my pilots and judging eye was to walk to end of
flight box, staying on judging side of flight line at contest, and watched 4
or 5 skilled pilots flying their center maneuvers. It produced the same
visual effect on their center maneuvers as standing at center of box and
looking at end maneuvers. (Realize this only applies to the center maneuvers
for eyeball training) the assumption is the center maneuvers are flown
normally more accurately than end box maneuvers. The added bonus was I could
see if the pilots where doing correct true verticals and horizontals at my
end of the maneuvering box. The surprising flaw I noticed was some would not
fly their bottom horizontals flat. Some would also not pull a true vertical.
Occasionally I would see a pilot off as much as 20º from true vertical. They
would often have a slight climb in them as they approached the end of the
box.  I found going out and experiencing was my best teacher. Class rooms
talks are great but they can't reproduce all of the geometry that an
experienced judge gains from sitting the flight line year after year.  When
contests had more man power to run a contest it was discussed about having
turnaround judges at one time.

    Del

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Ed Alt <mailto:ed_alt at hotmail.com>  

To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 7:04 AM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] APPARENT GEOMETRY (PARALLAXED VIEW)

And all the lines will bend and not appear straight,  Hey, I do that
already!

Ed

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Fred <mailto:fhhuber at clearwire.net>  Huber 

To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 10:59 PM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] APPARENT GEOMETRY (PARALLAXED VIEW)

The responsibility of the pilot s to PERFORM the corret geometry despite the
parallax view.

The responsibility of the judge is to learn how the parallax will make the
correctly flown maneuver look.

About the only way I can think of to show the effects of parallax on a
correctly flown turnaround maneuver would be to film it from as close to
perpendicular to the flight path as possible, and at the judges' location at
the same time. then play the tapes sumultaneously at a judging seminar.

At the appx 45 to 55 deg observation angle of the judges station, a 45 deg
up/down line (half cuban) would appear steeper than what is actually being
performed.  If it looks like a 45 from the judge's station (holding up a 9th
gradeer's geometry class triangle), its too shallow.  The appearance of 60
deg (same method) would be closer to actually being the 45 deg line.

Note that if the pilot doesn't make use of the full box, the parallax will
be reduced... and that's not downgradeable.

Verticals should still look vertical.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: rcmaster199 at aol.com 

To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org 

Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 10:11 PM

Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] APPARENT GEOMETRY (PARALLAXED VIEW)

A question has been posted from an IMAC gentleman (who is trying to write
better IMAC rules) as to how Pattern people fly and judge skewed appearance
of maneuvers at box ends or in center when tall maneuvers (Hourglass, Vert
Sq 8, Rolling Ess, etc) are involved. 

Some of us have searched the book and found no wording written that
describes what the pilots' responsibilities and the judges' responsibilities
are in the performance of the skewed apparent geometry. There is a statement
in the Judges Training tape in regard to end maneuvers.... that these will
appear different even when accurately flown. The oness is essentially on the
judges to know how the True Geometry should appear when flown at an angle to
the eye, and must not downgrade for Apparent or Parallaxed appearance
difference.

Spoke with Don about this earlier today and we decided to present the
question to the group and get some conversation going. We should be explicit
in the book regarding how such Apparent Geometry should be treated....ie-
what is the pilot's responsibility and what is the judge's. Description
improvements could be written over the next couple rule cycles.

The pilot's responsibility may appear easy.... they simply need to fly
precise geometry per the book. True enough, BUT.....consider what is
actually flown, especially by the top guys, and what scores well. These are
not necessarily as precise as one might think. The better pilots tend to fly
purposely flawed maneuvers that give the impression of precision. 

MattK

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