[NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question -- now judgeing the M

DaveL322 at comcast.net DaveL322 at comcast.net
Tue Oct 17 11:44:25 AKDT 2006


Indeed!!!  And, perhaps better yet, a show of hands from those who have given scores of less than 10, without being able to offer the specific deductions.

S+G simply allows an easy out for a judge to downgrade a technically perfect M (or other maneuver) which is flown differently than the judge would choose to fly it.  Another example/reason to eliminate S+G from the book.

Dave

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "Glen Watson" <gwatson11 at houston.rr.com> 

> Understood subjectivity will always be part pattern... 
> 
> Let's see a show of hands of those who would apply a downgrade to an M flown 
> technically correct according to the AMA judging criteria although the belly 
> was seen during 1 or both of the stall turns. 
> 
> Glen 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org 
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Mark Atwood 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 2:19 PM 
> To: NSRCA Mailing List 
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question 
> 
> I would disagree...it IS defined. Figure M with 3/4 rolls. Roll direction 
> is optional, stall direction is optional. That's always been the case 
> unless it's specified otherwise. There's no "implied" roll direction, just 
> one that some think looks better. That will always be the case. 
> 
> Some people do their four points in different directions so as to show the 
> canopy first, or last, which ever they feel presents better...Not sure I 
> personally care, but for those that do...go for it. I know I'll catch 
> flack for say this, but this IS a subjective sport. Presentation DOES 
> matter... Always will. It's shouldn't outweigh the objective criteria, but 
> it's not worthless either. 
> 
> 
> On 10/17/06 3:11 PM, "jivey61 at bellsouth.net" wrote: 
> 
> > G 
> > Yes you agree ..but you also see we have to define it now or everybody 
> will 
> > be flying and judging it differently. What a mess that will be. 
> > 
> > Jim Ivey 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "george w. kennie" 
> > To: "NSRCA Mailing List" 
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 1:50 PM 
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question 
> > 
> > 
> >> 
> >> Jim, 
> >> It certainly will work this way, but your original method will present 
> >> better. With the roll direction being pilots option your original 
> >> ll/rr-rr/ll is a much prettier maneuver. There's something to be said for 
> >> presenting the canopy to the judges on rolling maneuvers. I apply this 
> >> technique on all maneuvers with rolling elements unless the specified 
> >> requirement forces otherwise, like reverse K.E.'s. IMHO, you had it 
> right 
> >> the first time! 
> >> G. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: 
> >> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" 
> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 1:17 PM 
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> Bob 
> >>> If I read the Aresti correct the rolls on both vertical lines are the 
> > same 
> >>> direction.This makes it lt-lt and lt-lt coming from the left and rt-rt 
> > and 
> >>> rt-rt coming from the right.Like Jerry said look at top of plane one 
> > time 
> >>> and bottom of the plane next time. 
> >>> 
> >>> Jim Ivey 
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>> From: "Bob Kane" 
> >>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" 
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 1:01 PM 
> >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>> Wow, this is more complicated than I anticipated. Do you have to roll 
> > the 
> >>> same way for each stall turn? Or can you reverse directions to show the 
> >>> canopy during each stall? 
> >>>> 
> >>>> For example, flying left to right as shown on the aresti, pull 1/4 
> > loop, 
> >>> short line, roll 3/4 left (canopy toward flightline), short line, stall 
> >>> toward the right, short line, roll 3/4 left, short line, push 1/2 
> > outside 
> >>> loop, short line, roll 3/4 right (canopy faces flight line), short line, 
> >>> stall towerd the right, short line, 3/4 roll right, short line, pull 1/4 
> >>> loop. 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Bob Kane 
> >>>> getterflash at yahoo.com 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> ----- Original Message ---- 
> >>>> From: "jivey61 at bellsouth.net" 
> >>>> To: NSRCA Mailing List 
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 12:45:56 PM 
> >>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Jerry 
> >>>> I looked again at the aresti and I think you are right.The aresti shows 
> >>>> both upline rolls in the same direction.That would let you see the top 
> >>>> one 
> >>>> time and bottom the other time. 
> >>>> My mistake Bob so much for crutches. 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> _______________________________________________ 
> >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list 
> >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org 
> >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion 
> >>> 
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> >>> 
> >> 
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