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<DIV>Indeed!!! And, perhaps better yet, a show of hands from those who have given scores of less than 10, without being able to offer the specific deductions.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>S+G simply allows an easy out for a judge to downgrade a technically perfect M (or other maneuver) which is flown differently than the judge would choose to fly it. Another example/reason to eliminate S+G from the book.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Dave</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Glen Watson" <gwatson11@houston.rr.com> <BR><BR>> Understood subjectivity will always be part pattern... <BR>> <BR>> Let's see a show of hands of those who would apply a downgrade to an M flown <BR>> technically correct according to the AMA judging criteria although the belly <BR>> was seen during 1 or both of the stall turns. <BR>> <BR>> Glen <BR>> <BR>> -----Original Message----- <BR>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Mark Atwood <BR>> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 2:19 PM <BR>> To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question <BR>> <BR>> I would disagree...it IS defined. Figure M with 3/4 rolls. Roll direction <BR>> is optional, stall direction is opti
onal. That's always been the case <BR>> unless it's specified otherwise. There's no "implied" roll direction, just <BR>> one that some think looks better. That will always be the case. <BR>> <BR>> Some people do their four points in different directions so as to show the <BR>> canopy first, or last, which ever they feel presents better...Not sure I <BR>> personally care, but for those that do...go for it. I know I'll catch <BR>> flack for say this, but this IS a subjective sport. Presentation DOES <BR>> matter... Always will. It's shouldn't outweigh the objective criteria, but <BR>> it's not worthless either. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> On 10/17/06 3:11 PM, "jivey61@bellsouth.net" <JIVEY61@BELLSOUTH.NET>wrote: <BR>> <BR>> > G <BR>> > Yes you agree ..but you also see we have to define it now or everybody <BR>> will <BR>> > be flying and judging it differently. What a mess that will be. <BR>> > <BR>> > Jim Ivey <BR>> &g
t; ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > From: "george w. kennie" <GEOBET@GIS.NET><BR>> > To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 1:50 PM <BR>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >> <BR>> >> Jim, <BR>> >> It certainly will work this way, but your original method will present <BR>> >> better. With the roll direction being pilots option your original <BR>> >> ll/rr-rr/ll is a much prettier maneuver. There's something to be said for <BR>> >> presenting the canopy to the judges on rolling maneuvers. I apply this <BR>> >> technique on all maneuvers with rolling elements unless the specified <BR>> >> requirement forces otherwise, like reverse K.E.'s. IMHO, you had it <BR>> right <BR>> >> the first time! <BR>> >> G. <BR>> >> <BR>> >>
<BR>> >> <BR>> >> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> >> From: <JIVEY61@BELLSOUTH.NET><BR>> >> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 1:17 PM <BR>> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question <BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >>> Bob <BR>> >>> If I read the Aresti correct the rolls on both vertical lines are the <BR>> > same <BR>> >>> direction.This makes it lt-lt and lt-lt coming from the left and rt-rt <BR>> > and <BR>> >>> rt-rt coming from the right.Like Jerry said look at top of plane one <BR>> > time <BR>> >>> and bottom of the plane next time. <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> Jim Ivey <BR>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> >>> From: "Bob Kane" <GETTERFLASH@YAHOO.COM><BR>> >>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <N
SRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 1:01 PM <BR>> >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>>> Wow, this is more complicated than I anticipated. Do you have to roll <BR>> > the <BR>> >>> same way for each stall turn? Or can you reverse directions to show the <BR>> >>> canopy during each stall? <BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>> For example, flying left to right as shown on the aresti, pull 1/4 <BR>> > loop, <BR>> >>> short line, roll 3/4 left (canopy toward flightline), short line, stall <BR>> >>> toward the right, short line, roll 3/4 left, short line, push 1/2 <BR>> > outside <BR>> >>> loop, short line, roll 3/4 right (canopy faces flight line), short line, <BR>> >>> stall towerd the right, short line, 3/4 roll right, sho
rt line, pull 1/4 <BR>> >>> loop. <BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>> Bob Kane <BR>> >>>> getterflash@yahoo.com <BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>> ----- Original Message ---- <BR>> >>>> From: "jivey61@bellsouth.net" <JIVEY61@BELLSOUTH.NET><BR>> >>>> To: NSRCA Mailing List <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 12:45:56 PM <BR>> >>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question <BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>> Jerry <BR>> >>>> I looked again at the aresti and I think you are right.The aresti shows <BR>> >>>> both upline rolls in the same direction.That would let you see the top <BR>> >>>> one <BR>> >>>> time and bottom the other time. <BR>> >>>> My mistake Bob so m
uch for crutches. <BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>> _______________________________________________ <BR>> >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> >>>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> _______________________________________________ <BR>> >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> >>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> >>> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> _______________________________________________ <BR>> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> >> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> > <BR>> > __________________________________________
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