[NSRCA-discussion] If you don't score by the rules....don'tadvertise a rulebook event

Del K. Rykert drykert2 at rochester.rr.com
Tue Oct 3 09:17:43 AKDT 2006


Another excuse given was to speed up the time it took for the scored takeoffs and landings supposedly took which was supposedly contributing to long running contests.  As the fruit has shown that is not the case. 
 
    Del

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: brian young 
  To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org 
  Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 9:16 PM
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] If you don't score by the rules....don'tadvertise a rulebook event


  Sorry you got a bad impression. From past experience and when the landings were scored incrementally the reason they were changed to 0 and 10 at the pilots meeting is frequently less than perfect conditions, or small runway. 

  Landing is normally where planes get broken, and takeoffs are normally where people get ran out of judges chairs. So in bad conditions it makes sense to modify the scoring. So if you bother to travel to a contest and the weather is crummy it makes it a little easier for some if they dont have so much pressure to make a landing. We dont want anyone to break a plane and possibly end their season, we need everyone thats interested in pattern to stay interested. Hope you get back in the mood to hit some contests. 

  Im with ya on the scoring of the TO and landings though, landings can be tough to get right and if you do them well you want them scored no matter the k factor. 

  Fred Huber <fhhuber at clearwire.net> wrote:
    This wasn't this year... I didn't go to a contest this year partly because of the bad feeling left over from the previous rules deviations... which were made at the pilots meeting propr to the first flight... and I would have been the sole opposition.
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Verne Koester 
      To: NSRCA Mailing List 
      Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 4:53 PM
      Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] If you don't score by the rules....don't advertise a rulebook event


      Fred,
      They WERE scoring by the rules at the contests you attended this year. Under the current rules, takeoffs and landings are scored EITHER 0 or 10 for all classes. 

      Effective January 1, 2007, Takeoffs and landings will be FROM 0 to 10 in half point increments for all AMA classes. 

      You're right, deviations from the rule book are supposed to be advertised in advance of the contest date.

      Verne Koester
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Fred Huber 
        To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org 
        Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:45 PM
        Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] If you don't score by the rules.... don't advertise a rulebook event


        This has been annoying me for a long time....

        At Sportsman level the K=1 takeoff and landing scores can significantly 
        affect the contest results.

        The all too common practice of changing the rules at the last minute, to 
        give Sportsman 0 or 10 on take-off and landing,  is inappropriate. 
        (Inappropriate to chane the scoring system for any maneuver at ANY level!) 
        Of course all the higher level pilots will agree to it... it does not affect 
        them.  ANY ONE PILOT in Sportsman (or whatever other class is affected) 
        contesting the change without it having been advertised as a rule 
        modification in advance should prevent the change.

        Yes, the takeoff and landing scoring is something that I think has affected 
        my outcome at contests.  I flew a plane that had a large problem with stall 
        turns... with a 6 being a good result for that maneuver.  Full opposed 
        aileron wasn't enough to prevent the plane from rolling when rudder was 
        applied.  But I figured my quality of takeoff and landing would more than 
        make up for the poor stall turns, so I showed up for the contests.  And 
        every contest I showed up at... they on the spot said "Sportsman gets 0 or 
        10 takeoff and landing"  When all the marginal takeoffs of the other pilots 
        in my class got 10's (Many deserved 5's... or 2's...  and I was consistantly 
        getting complimented on the smoothness of my takeoffs and landings.) it took 
        away the ability for me to make up for my known problem with the stall turn.

        Next contest I go to... if they decide to change the rules on the spot... I 
        want my entry fee back. (applies to some other events I have been to 
        also...)
        If they advertise in advance that the scoring won't be by rulebook... I 
        won't show up.

        I kept quiet about it (except discussing it with a couple of local flyers) 
        when it occured.  Too many much more accompished pilots were in favor of the 
        change.  IT HAD NO EFFECT ON THEM!  They shouldn't have been part of the 
        discussion at all.

        You want to change a rule that affects only one class at the pilots' meeting 
        before the first flight... ANY ONE PILOT in that class opposing the change 
        prevents it.  And pilots in other classes have no vote.

        If the wind is too much for the pilot to think he wants to risk getting a 
        bad score on takeoff and landing... maybe its too much wind for that pilot 
        to bother making a takeoff.  All of the other pilots in the class will be 
        dealing with the same wind.  It has just as much chance of preventing them 
        from getting a 10.

        Any contest that decides to give Sportsman 0 or 10 for takeoff or landing 
        should list it as non-rulebook in advance.  If you are going to do the 
        2-passes through the sequence without the full stop landing and another 
        takeoff... you need to advertise that too.

        I oppose the flying of 2 "flights" of Sportsman with one takeoff and one 
        landing...  The takeoff and landing are scored maneuvers, suppposed to be 
        able to get a score other than 0 or 10, therefore cutting half of the 
        opportunities to do well or poorly on them is changing the scoring vs the 
        rulebook. (see above... I  moved this paragraph due to changes in the below 
        from the original version)

        Also... the Sportsman sequence is relatively short for a reason.  This is an 
        introductory class.  The contestants are not used to competing... not used 
        to getting judged.  They need the ability to do one competition round... go 
        back and talk with others about what they did right, what they did wrong and 
        how to improve.  They also need a bit of timne to RELAX between the scored 
        flights.

        Considering how nervous some people are in thier early competition rounds... 
        its a wonder to me that a first time Sportsman level competitor ends up with 
        thier airplane in the air by the end of a second sequence within one flight.

        The first contest someone flys in, they typically fly too close in, and 
        because of this ALL maneuvers are extremely rushed.  By the end of the 
        flight some contestants are so frazzled that they have severe problems doing 
        the double-immelman AT ALL.  Then you want them to immedately turn around 
        and run the sequence again?  Why not just tell them to land at the judges 
        feet so the judges can stomp on the model?

        Thats not a formula to promote  more participation... its a formula to scare 
        off beginners.  If the pilot is ready to run the sequence twice in a row FOR 
        THE JUDGES.. they are probably ready to start working on Inermediate.

        Most people I have seen move up from Sportsman, its been due to seeking the 
        higher challenge of Intermediate... not due to getting the points forcing 
        the move up.  "Sandbagging" Sportsman is rare.

        Also... it is justifiable for someone competing at Sportsman to set up thier 
        plane for one round flight durration.  If they average 4 minutes to do a 
        round... and put in a tank which gives 6 minute fuel supply, then the 
        2-rounds in one flight is a guaranteed dead-stick before completion of the 
        second round.  Do you force Master's level pilots to carry enough fuel for 2 
        passes through the sequence?  Would they tollerate that?

        Forcing a competitor to carry the DEAD WEIGHT of the fuel for a second round 
        through the first round is inappropriate.  At Sportsman level... the type 
        models which are competitive include models which would have severe CG 
        change with the fuel depletion...

        If you think a Sportsman competitor needs to be able to run 2 times through 
        the sequence nonstop, you probably also think everyone needs to buy a $3000 
        plane, capable of flying the Masters sequence, in order to try out 
        Sportsman.  Its totaly unnecessary, inappropriate and shuts out beginners.

        FHH 


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