[NSRCA-discussion] FAI sporting code on judge transparency

Mon Nov 20 04:17:24 AKST 2006

I think posting judges names along with the scores is more than a fair idea
and goes a long way toward increasing the transparency at a contest.  When
you increase the transparency, the "pilots" have a better understanding and
good time.  When the pilots are happy, they come back to the contests and
maybe bring someone with them.  If you notice, after a contest when our
friend who did not makes it calls and asks, ". how was the contest," the
next question is ". how was the judging."  Judging, or problems with
judging, is such an intrinsic part of the pattern experience that you can't
separate it from the "description" of how the contest went.

1.	What is interesting is that the "flight" takes place in a public
forum - anyone can see it.  As we watch it, more often or not it is watched
in small groups which include fellow class-competitors, or more experienced
pilots pointing out to younger pilots errors to look out for.  
2.	The judges for the round are public information.  IE - you can look
out on the flight line and see who is judging
3.	The pilot for the round is public information.  IE - you can look
out on the flight line and see who is flying.  

Yet, "who" and "how" the scores were given remains a small mystery.  A lot
of folks do not want to be known as the guy who goes to the CD and asks
questions about the scoring and such.  Or, is seen by their fellow
competitors as being the CD hound.  

Judge Training:  Most judge training takes place in practice and at
contests.  There is no better forum for judge training than the contest
environment.  When the tear sheets are posted for each round with judge
identification, you can go and ask ". I watched that and wondered why you
gave it xyz score."  This is an incredibly valuable moment when all of us
are gathered we do more to get the most out of it.  As it stands, after the
round is posted the next comment is, ". well, I guess the judges didn't
catch that zero.. (and similar comments)."  These conversations are already
taking place at the contest.  Posting the tear sheets for everyone would
bring these conversations into the open as a positive element of the
experience, and not add to the conspiracy theorists ammunition (every
district has a prime person/competitor who is a judging conspiracy
theorists).  

Last thing, there are two judges for every 1 pilot, thus, there is 100% more
judging work taking place than piloting work.  We are there to fly, but the
performance of the judges is every bit on display as the performance of the
pilot.  In the US we also tally the judges performance and keep track of
them on the national scene.  Posting the tear sheets with judges names would
help this effort, allow for a GREAT training tool to be available to the CD
and fellow pilots, and become a "self-correcting-tool" to those persons who
to judge with bias (intentionally or not).  As a judge, at the end of the
round it would be great to know how my scores compared to the other judge.
Each judge could discuss the round.  When the tear sheets are posted in the
open, it will "promote" this conversation and I believe, help on many
levels.  Also, if you as a judge know the scores and names will be posted
after a round, I bet a lot of judge-lazy behavior will go away, like when
they/we have our head down and write scores, thus missing 30% or more of
maneuvers.

Just some ideas.

Jim W.

  _____  

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Wayne
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 11:37 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAI sporting code on judge transparency

Fred,

my point is post them...not leave loose tear sheets on a table for pilots to
take away from the table. This has been the practice at the NATS. They need
to be posted in some way. Not just tossed as loose sheets for the wind and
pilots to remove from the public view

That is all my point was. I had a conversation with an FAI pilot back after
the NATS and he has been advocating this the past 3 years yet still not
happening.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Fred Huber <mailto:fhhuber at clearwire.net>  

To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 8:13 PM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAI sporting code on judge transparency

To me, "public" can be debated somewhat....  

Its probably adequate to post them on a table where anyone WHO WANTS TO can
see them.  

All the Pattern contests I have been to, the scores have been taped to a
table where anyone who wanted to look had access.  Good enough.  Don't make
it harder than it has to be.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Wayne <mailto:Whinkle1024 at msn.com>  

To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 8:21 PM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAI sporting code on judge transparency

Public is not left on a table....Public is posted for the world to see.

check out the awesome job done by the Swiss at the last Euro Champs. Too bad
we in the USA with more pattern flyers than anywhere else can't get with the
program.

http://www.em06.ch/ranking_preliminary.asp

Wayne

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Lance Van <mailto:patterndude at comcast.net>  Nostrand 

To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 6:17 PM

Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAI sporting code on judge transparency

To all rule-meisters,

I know there are some on this list that have deep insight into the intent
and history of the F3A sporting code.  I hope to either get a solid answer
or pointed in the right direction.  This is not an idle request.

Part 5.1.8 Marking - last sentence 

The scores given by each judge for each competitor shall be made public at
the end of each round of competition.

What level of transparency is mandated?  Is it enough to report the scores
from judge 1-4 or is it expected that the identity of the judge be known as
well?

--Lance

  _____  

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

  _____  

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion 

  _____  

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.7/537 - Release Date: 11/17/2006

  _____  

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20061120/419c85ca/attachment-0001.html 