[NSRCA-discussion] SPA Web Site
Bob Stevens
rgsmutley at nexicom.net
Mon Nov 13 18:49:01 AKST 2006
Thanks Bill!! Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "William C. Harden" <flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>
To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 6:58 PM
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SPA Web Site
> http://www.seniorpattern.com/
>
> Bill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Stevens
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 3:56 PM
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
>
> Not on this subject!! Does anyone out there have the website or E-Mail for
> the senior pattern group Thanks!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "george w. kennie" <geobet at gis.net>
> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
>
>
> > Good point Mr.Ramsey !!!!!!
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Don Ramsey (CoxNet)" <don.ramsey at cox.net>
> > To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> > Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 8:42 AM
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
> >
> >
> > > Actually, 15 meters is only mentioned in the requirement to call the
box
> > > entry and exit and it is a minimum (rule 14). The length of the line
> into
> > > and out of a maneuver is not specified (see "Major and Minor Defects"
> and
> > > "Lines" in the regs). An aircraft traveling 80 mph will cover 15
meters
> > > in
> > > 0.42 seconds.
> > >
> > > Don
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Lance Van Nostrand" <patterndude at comcast.net>
> > > To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 10:32 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
> > >
> > >
> > >>I don't think the rules support your claim that the 15m entry/exit is
a
> > >> minimum. I think you have just made up your own rule to downgrade at
1
> > >> point per 15. However, this is very lenient downgrading because to
get
> a
> > >> 1
> > >> point downgrade by descending or ascending at 15 degrees, over a 100m
> > >> distance, the plane would change altitude by 77 ft. A pilot changing
> > >> altitude by 15 ft or so would only be making a 3 degree error.
(note:
> > >> the
> > >> box width at 150 meters is 600 meters).
> > >>
> > >> Therefore, if I lose 15 ft of altitude as I fly from the end of the
> > >> reverse
> > >> cuban into the stall turn (manuvers 1 and 2) this should hardly
> register
> > >> as
> > >> a downgrade.
> > >>
> > >> --Lance
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "Keith Black" <tkeithblack at gmail.com>
> > >> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> > >> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 7:40 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>I agree with Don's description on the maneuver, this makes perfect
> sense
> > >>>to
> > >>> me. However, I really don't think it matters if you visualize the
> center
> > >>> or
> > >>> the first corner as the start because IMO any deviation in track,
> > >>> altitude
> > >>> change or wing bobble approaching the eight, whether 15 m or greater
> > >>> from
> > >>> the theoretical start of the eight is grounds for downgrade.
> > >>>
> > >>> This thinking goes to what Lance was discussing as "no man's land".
> I'm
> > >>> not
> > >>> sure there is such a thing, I've always thought of the 15 m entry
line
> > >>> as
> > >>> a
> > >>> minimum.
> > >>>
> > >>> Let's take an example. A pilot comes out of the Humpty Bump prior to
> the
> > >>> figure eight and draws a 15 m straight line. Then they start loosing
> > >>> altitude and continue dropping until 15 m before center (Lance's
> > >>> theoretical
> > >>> no man's land). I for one would deduct points from the eight based
on
> > >>> the
> > >>> 15
> > >>> degree rule. I don't think the spirit of the rules is "anything
goes",
> > >>> or
> > >>> "it's not so bad" as long as it's not 15 m before a maneuver starts.
> If
> > >>> one
> > >>> does score this way then the pilot that keeps a perfect line between
> > >>> these
> > >>> two maneuvers will not be rewarded for doing a better job.
> > >>>
> > >>> Keith Black
> > >>>
> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>> From: "Lance Van Nostrand" <patterndude at comcast.net>
> > >>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> > >>> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 8:07 AM
> > >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> Don,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Since it is the point of this list to be nitpicky, let me say that
> when
> > >>> the
> > >>>> plane is inverted at center it is at a point that it will never
> return
> > >>>> to,
> > >>>> therefore the actual center can not be the start of the manuver.
> > >>>> Granted,
> > >>>> the center is part of the straight line that begins and ends all
> > >>>> manuvers,
> > >>>> but it is not part of the actual figure 8. So to be complete,
> judging
> > >>>> starts 15m before the exit of the final radius and ends 15m after
> this
> > >>>> point. This encompases the center but is not the actual beginning
and
> > >>>> ending.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> As for Stuart's comment, I think any downgrade applied to what the
> > >>> airplane
> > >>>> does when it is in "no man's land" falls in the smoothness and
> > >>> Gracefulness
> > >>>> category and should be minimal. ("no man's land" exists between
some
> > >>>> manuvers that are far apart where the prior manuver and its 15m
exit
> > >>>> line
> > >>>> end, but there is a long space before the 15m entry line of the
next
> > >>>> manuver.)
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --Lance
> > >>>>
> > >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>> From: "Don Ramsey (CoxNet)" <don.ramsey at cox.net>
> > >>>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> > >>>> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 7:40 PM
> > >>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> > Lance,
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > I believe it starts at center. Straight line before center and
> start
> > >>>> > at
> > >>>> > center. The reason I say that is rule 14.1 which says "Each time
> the
> > >>>> > model
> > >>>> > passes before the judges, a maneuver is executed, except after
> > >>>> > takeoff
> > >>> and
> > >>>> > landing." Of course, some maneuvers start before center as the
> slow
> > >>> roll,
> > >>>> > etc. As for scoring, I'm not entirely sure it matters.
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > Don
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>> > From: <jivey61 at bellsouth.net>
> > >>>> > To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> > >>>> > Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 7:16 PM
> > >>>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >> Lance
> > >>>> >> You will have to have a entry line before the push to vertical
> past
> > >>>> >> center.This is where I think it starts... at the start of the
> entry
> > >>> line.
> > >>>> >>
> > >>>> >> Jim Ivey
> > >>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>> >> From: "Lance Van Nostrand" <patterndude at comcast.net>
> > >>>> >> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> > >>>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 7:51 PM
> > >>>> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
> > >>>> >>
> > >>>> >>
> > >>>> >>> OK,so where does the manuver begin and end? At center, the
> radius
> > >>> after
> > >>>> >>> center, at the first corner initiation?
> > >>>> >>>
> > >>>> >>> --Lance
> > >>>> >>>
> > >>>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>> >>> From: <jivey61 at bellsouth.net>
> > >>>> >>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> > >>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 4:06 PM
> > >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
> > >>>> >>>
> > >>>> >>>
> > >>>> >>> > Jason
> > >>>> >>> > The way we are flying the 8 is enter inverted and 1st loop
> > >>>> >>> > (outside)
> > >>>> >>> > to
> > >>>> >>> > the
> > >>>> >>> > right of center and next (inside) loop to the left of
> center.The
> > >>> first
> > >>>> >>> > loop
> > >>>> >>> > is outside loop and 1st vertical segment starts past
center.Of
> > >>> course
> > >>>> >> swap
> > >>>> >>> > left and right for opposite flying direction.
> > >>>> >>> >
> > >>>> >>> >
> > >>>> >>> > Jim Ivey
> > >>>> >>> >
> > >>>> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>> >>> > From: "JShulman" <jshulman at cfl.rr.com>
> > >>>> >>> > To: "NSRCA" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> > >>>> >>> > Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 4:08 PM
> > >>>> >>> > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
> > >>>> >>> >
> > >>>> >>> >
> > >>>> >>> >> Hi All,
> > >>>> >>> >>
> > >>>> >>> >> Does the Square horizontal 8 start at center or just past
> > >>>> >>> >> center?
> > >>>> >>> >>
> > >>>> >>> >> Regards,
> > >>>> >>> >> Jason
> > >>>> >>> >> www.jasonshulman.com
> > >>>> >>> >> www.shulmanaviation.com
> > >>>> >>> >> www.composite-arf.com
> > >>>> >>> >> --
> > >>>> >>> >> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > >>>> >>> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > >>>> >>> >> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.2/528 - Release
> Date:
> > >>>> >>> >> 11/10/2006
> > >>>> >>> >>
> > >>>> >>> >>
> > >>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________
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> > >>>> >>> >
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