[NSRCA-discussion] SPA Web Site

Mon Nov 13 14:58:20 AKST 2006

http://www.seniorpattern.com/

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Stevens
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 3:56 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8

Not on this subject!! Does anyone out there have the website or E-Mail for
the senior pattern group Thanks!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "george w. kennie" <geobet at gis.net>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8


> Good point Mr.Ramsey !!!!!!
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Don Ramsey (CoxNet)" <don.ramsey at cox.net>
> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 8:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
>
>
> > Actually, 15 meters is only mentioned in the requirement to call the box
> > entry and exit and it is a minimum (rule 14).  The length of the line
into
> > and out of a maneuver is not specified (see "Major and Minor Defects"
and
> > "Lines" in the regs).  An aircraft traveling 80 mph will cover 15 meters
> > in
> > 0.42 seconds.
> >
> > Don
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Lance Van Nostrand" <patterndude at comcast.net>
> > To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 10:32 PM
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
> >
> >
> >>I don't think the rules support your claim that the 15m entry/exit is a
> >> minimum.  I think you have just made up your own rule to downgrade at 1
> >> point per 15.  However, this is very lenient downgrading because to get
a
> >> 1
> >> point downgrade by descending or ascending at 15 degrees, over a 100m
> >> distance, the plane would change altitude by 77 ft.  A pilot changing
> >> altitude by 15 ft or so would only be making a 3 degree error.  (note:
> >> the
> >> box width at 150 meters is 600 meters).
> >>
> >> Therefore, if I  lose 15 ft of altitude as I fly from the end of the
> >> reverse
> >> cuban into the stall turn (manuvers 1 and 2) this should hardly
register
> >> as
> >> a downgrade.
> >>
> >> --Lance
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Keith Black" <tkeithblack at gmail.com>
> >> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 7:40 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
> >>
> >>
> >>>I agree with Don's description on the maneuver, this makes perfect
sense
> >>>to
> >>> me. However, I really don't think it matters if you visualize the
center
> >>> or
> >>> the first corner as the start because IMO any deviation in track,
> >>> altitude
> >>> change or wing bobble approaching the eight, whether 15 m or greater
> >>> from
> >>> the theoretical start of the eight is grounds for downgrade.
> >>>
> >>> This thinking goes to what Lance was discussing as "no man's land".
I'm
> >>> not
> >>> sure there is such a thing, I've always thought of the 15 m entry line
> >>> as
> >>> a
> >>> minimum.
> >>>
> >>> Let's take an example. A pilot comes out of the Humpty Bump prior to
the
> >>> figure eight and draws a 15 m straight line. Then they start loosing
> >>> altitude and continue dropping until 15 m before center (Lance's
> >>> theoretical
> >>> no man's land). I for one would deduct points from the eight based on
> >>> the
> >>> 15
> >>> degree rule. I don't think the spirit of the rules is "anything goes",
> >>> or
> >>> "it's not so bad" as long as it's not 15 m before a maneuver starts.
If
> >>> one
> >>> does score this way then the pilot that keeps a perfect line between
> >>> these
> >>> two maneuvers will not be rewarded for doing a better job.
> >>>
> >>> Keith Black
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>> From: "Lance Van Nostrand" <patterndude at comcast.net>
> >>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 8:07 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Don,
> >>>>
> >>>> Since it is the point of this list to be nitpicky, let me say that
when
> >>> the
> >>>> plane is inverted at center it is at a point that it will never
return
> >>>> to,
> >>>> therefore the actual center can not be the start of the manuver.
> >>>> Granted,
> >>>> the center is part of the straight line that begins and ends all
> >>>> manuvers,
> >>>> but it is not part of the actual figure 8.  So to be complete,
judging
> >>>> starts 15m before the exit of the final radius and ends 15m after
this
> >>>> point. This encompases the center but is not the actual beginning and
> >>>> ending.
> >>>>
> >>>> As for Stuart's comment, I think any downgrade applied to what the
> >>> airplane
> >>>> does when it is in "no man's land" falls in the smoothness and
> >>> Gracefulness
> >>>> category and should be minimal.  ("no man's land" exists between some
> >>>> manuvers that are far apart where the prior manuver and its 15m exit
> >>>> line
> >>>> end, but there is a long space before the 15m entry line of the next
> >>>> manuver.)
> >>>>
> >>>> --Lance
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>>> From: "Don Ramsey (CoxNet)" <don.ramsey at cox.net>
> >>>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>>> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 7:40 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> > Lance,
> >>>> >
> >>>> > I believe it starts at center. Straight line before center and
start
> >>>> > at
> >>>> > center.  The reason I say that is rule 14.1 which says "Each time
the
> >>>> > model
> >>>> > passes before the judges, a maneuver is executed, except after
> >>>> > takeoff
> >>> and
> >>>> > landing."  Of course, some maneuvers start before center as the
slow
> >>> roll,
> >>>> > etc. As for scoring, I'm not entirely sure it matters.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Don
> >>>> >
> >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>>> > From: <jivey61 at bellsouth.net>
> >>>> > To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>>> > Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 7:16 PM
> >>>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >> Lance
> >>>> >> You will have to have a entry line before the push to vertical
past
> >>>> >> center.This is where I think it starts... at the start of the
entry
> >>> line.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Jim Ivey
> >>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>>> >> From: "Lance Van Nostrand" <patterndude at comcast.net>
> >>>> >> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 7:51 PM
> >>>> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>> OK,so where does the manuver begin and end?  At center, the
radius
> >>> after
> >>>> >>> center, at the first corner initiation?
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> --Lance
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>>> >>> From: <jivey61 at bellsouth.net>
> >>>> >>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 4:06 PM
> >>>> >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> > Jason
> >>>> >>> > The way we are flying the 8 is enter inverted and 1st loop
> >>>> >>> > (outside)
> >>>> >>> > to
> >>>> >>> > the
> >>>> >>> > right of center and next (inside) loop to the left of
center.The
> >>> first
> >>>> >>> > loop
> >>>> >>> > is outside loop and 1st vertical segment starts past center.Of
> >>> course
> >>>> >> swap
> >>>> >>> > left and right for opposite flying direction.
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> > Jim Ivey
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>>> >>> > From: "JShulman" <jshulman at cfl.rr.com>
> >>>> >>> > To: "NSRCA" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>>> >>> > Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 4:08 PM
> >>>> >>> > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> >> Hi All,
> >>>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >> Does the Square horizontal 8 start at center or just past
> >>>> >>> >> center?
> >>>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >> Regards,
> >>>> >>> >> Jason
> >>>> >>> >> www.jasonshulman.com
> >>>> >>> >> www.shulmanaviation.com
> >>>> >>> >> www.composite-arf.com
> >>>> >>> >> -- 
> >>>> >>> >> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> >>>> >>> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >>>> >>> >> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.2/528 - Release
Date:
> >>>> >>> >> 11/10/2006
> >>>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >>
> >>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>> >>> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>>> >>> >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> >>>> >>> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>>> >>> >
> >>>> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>>> >>> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>>> >>> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> >>>> >>> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>>> >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> >>>> >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>>> >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> >>>> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>>> >
> >>>> > _______________________________________________
> >>>> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>>> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> >>>> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>


_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion