[NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8

Sun Nov 12 16:41:16 AKST 2006

I agree with Don's description on the maneuver, this makes perfect sense to
me. However, I really don't think it matters if you visualize the center or
the first corner as the start because IMO any deviation in track, altitude
change or wing bobble approaching the eight, whether 15 m or greater from
the theoretical start of the eight is grounds for downgrade.

This thinking goes to what Lance was discussing as "no man's land". I'm not
sure there is such a thing, I've always thought of the 15 m entry line as a
minimum.

Let's take an example. A pilot comes out of the Humpty Bump prior to the
figure eight and draws a 15 m straight line. Then they start loosing
altitude and continue dropping until 15 m before center (Lance's theoretical
no man's land). I for one would deduct points from the eight based on the 15
degree rule. I don't think the spirit of the rules is "anything goes", or
"it's not so bad" as long as it's not 15 m before a maneuver starts. If one
does score this way then the pilot that keeps a perfect line between these
two maneuvers will not be rewarded for doing a better job.

Keith Black

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lance Van Nostrand" <patterndude at comcast.net>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8

> Don,
>
> Since it is the point of this list to be nitpicky, let me say that when
the
> plane is inverted at center it is at a point that it will never return to,
> therefore the actual center can not be the start of the manuver.  Granted,
> the center is part of the straight line that begins and ends all manuvers,
> but it is not part of the actual figure 8.  So to be complete, judging
> starts 15m before the exit of the final radius and ends 15m after this
> point. This encompases the center but is not the actual beginning and
> ending.
>
> As for Stuart's comment, I think any downgrade applied to what the
airplane
> does when it is in "no man's land" falls in the smoothness and
Gracefulness
> category and should be minimal.  ("no man's land" exists between some
> manuvers that are far apart where the prior manuver and its 15m exit line
> end, but there is a long space before the 15m entry line of the next
> manuver.)
>
> --Lance
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Don Ramsey (CoxNet)" <don.ramsey at cox.net>
> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 7:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
>
>
> > Lance,
> >
> > I believe it starts at center. Straight line before center and start at
> > center.  The reason I say that is rule 14.1 which says "Each time the
> > model
> > passes before the judges, a maneuver is executed, except after takeoff
and
> > landing."  Of course, some maneuvers start before center as the slow
roll,
> > etc. As for scoring, I'm not entirely sure it matters.
> >
> > Don
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: <jivey61 at bellsouth.net>
> > To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 7:16 PM
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
> >
> >
> >> Lance
> >> You will have to have a entry line before the push to vertical past
> >> center.This is where I think it starts... at the start of the entry
line.
> >>
> >> Jim Ivey
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Lance Van Nostrand" <patterndude at comcast.net>
> >> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 7:51 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
> >>
> >>
> >>> OK,so where does the manuver begin and end?  At center, the radius
after
> >>> center, at the first corner initiation?
> >>>
> >>> --Lance
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>> From: <jivey61 at bellsouth.net>
> >>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 4:06 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Jason
> >>> > The way we are flying the 8 is enter inverted and 1st loop (outside)
> >>> > to
> >>> > the
> >>> > right of center and next (inside) loop to the left of center.The
first
> >>> > loop
> >>> > is outside loop and 1st vertical segment starts past center.Of
course
> >> swap
> >>> > left and right for opposite flying direction.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > Jim Ivey
> >>> >
> >>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>> > From: "JShulman" <jshulman at cfl.rr.com>
> >>> > To: "NSRCA" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>> > Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 4:08 PM
> >>> > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >> Hi All,
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Does the Square horizontal 8 start at center or just past center?
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Regards,
> >>> >> Jason
> >>> >> www.jasonshulman.com
> >>> >> www.shulmanaviation.com
> >>> >> www.composite-arf.com
> >>> >> -- 
> >>> >> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> >>> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >>> >> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.2/528 - Release Date:
> >>> >> 11/10/2006
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
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