[NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8

Sun Nov 12 19:32:47 AKST 2006

I don't think the rules support your claim that the 15m entry/exit is a 
minimum.  I think you have just made up your own rule to downgrade at 1 
point per 15.  However, this is very lenient downgrading because to get a 1 
point downgrade by descending or ascending at 15 degrees, over a 100m 
distance, the plane would change altitude by 77 ft.  A pilot changing 
altitude by 15 ft or so would only be making a 3 degree error.  (note: the 
box width at 150 meters is 600 meters).

Therefore, if I  lose 15 ft of altitude as I fly from the end of the reverse 
cuban into the stall turn (manuvers 1 and 2) this should hardly register as 
a downgrade.

--Lance

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Black" <tkeithblack at gmail.com>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8

>I agree with Don's description on the maneuver, this makes perfect sense to
> me. However, I really don't think it matters if you visualize the center 
> or
> the first corner as the start because IMO any deviation in track, altitude
> change or wing bobble approaching the eight, whether 15 m or greater from
> the theoretical start of the eight is grounds for downgrade.
>
> This thinking goes to what Lance was discussing as "no man's land". I'm 
> not
> sure there is such a thing, I've always thought of the 15 m entry line as 
> a
> minimum.
>
> Let's take an example. A pilot comes out of the Humpty Bump prior to the
> figure eight and draws a 15 m straight line. Then they start loosing
> altitude and continue dropping until 15 m before center (Lance's 
> theoretical
> no man's land). I for one would deduct points from the eight based on the 
> 15
> degree rule. I don't think the spirit of the rules is "anything goes", or
> "it's not so bad" as long as it's not 15 m before a maneuver starts. If 
> one
> does score this way then the pilot that keeps a perfect line between these
> two maneuvers will not be rewarded for doing a better job.
>
> Keith Black
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Lance Van Nostrand" <patterndude at comcast.net>
> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 8:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
>
>
>> Don,
>>
>> Since it is the point of this list to be nitpicky, let me say that when
> the
>> plane is inverted at center it is at a point that it will never return 
>> to,
>> therefore the actual center can not be the start of the manuver. 
>> Granted,
>> the center is part of the straight line that begins and ends all 
>> manuvers,
>> but it is not part of the actual figure 8.  So to be complete, judging
>> starts 15m before the exit of the final radius and ends 15m after this
>> point. This encompases the center but is not the actual beginning and
>> ending.
>>
>> As for Stuart's comment, I think any downgrade applied to what the
> airplane
>> does when it is in "no man's land" falls in the smoothness and
> Gracefulness
>> category and should be minimal.  ("no man's land" exists between some
>> manuvers that are far apart where the prior manuver and its 15m exit line
>> end, but there is a long space before the 15m entry line of the next
>> manuver.)
>>
>> --Lance
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Don Ramsey (CoxNet)" <don.ramsey at cox.net>
>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 7:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
>>
>>
>> > Lance,
>> >
>> > I believe it starts at center. Straight line before center and start at
>> > center.  The reason I say that is rule 14.1 which says "Each time the
>> > model
>> > passes before the judges, a maneuver is executed, except after takeoff
> and
>> > landing."  Of course, some maneuvers start before center as the slow
> roll,
>> > etc. As for scoring, I'm not entirely sure it matters.
>> >
>> > Don
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>> > From: <jivey61 at bellsouth.net>
>> > To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> > Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 7:16 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
>> >
>> >
>> >> Lance
>> >> You will have to have a entry line before the push to vertical past
>> >> center.This is where I think it starts... at the start of the entry
> line.
>> >>
>> >> Jim Ivey
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >> From: "Lance Van Nostrand" <patterndude at comcast.net>
>> >> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 7:51 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> OK,so where does the manuver begin and end?  At center, the radius
> after
>> >>> center, at the first corner initiation?
>> >>>
>> >>> --Lance
>> >>>
>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >>> From: <jivey61 at bellsouth.net>
>> >>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 4:06 PM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> > Jason
>> >>> > The way we are flying the 8 is enter inverted and 1st loop 
>> >>> > (outside)
>> >>> > to
>> >>> > the
>> >>> > right of center and next (inside) loop to the left of center.The
> first
>> >>> > loop
>> >>> > is outside loop and 1st vertical segment starts past center.Of
> course
>> >> swap
>> >>> > left and right for opposite flying direction.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Jim Ivey
>> >>> >
>> >>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >>> > From: "JShulman" <jshulman at cfl.rr.com>
>> >>> > To: "NSRCA" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> >>> > Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 4:08 PM
>> >>> > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters Square 8
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >> Hi All,
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Does the Square horizontal 8 start at center or just past center?
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Regards,
>> >>> >> Jason
>> >>> >> www.jasonshulman.com
>> >>> >> www.shulmanaviation.com
>> >>> >> www.composite-arf.com
>> >>> >> -- 
>> >>> >> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> >>> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> >>> >> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.2/528 - Release Date:
>> >>> >> 11/10/2006
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
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