[NSRCA-discussion] weight limits for electrics?

[Larry]

WOW! I did step into the middle of things didn't I? :) 

It looks to me like there are two separate but related weight issues being debated. There also seem to be good points being made on all sides of the issues.

1)should the weight limit be raised or abandoned all together - regardless of power source.

I don't really have a horse in that race, so I have no informed opinion. I think big bipes might be cool tho!

2)Is the current weight rule "fair" to electrics?

That I do have an opinion on. I think calling the batteries the "fuel tank" is not correct. The battery is the fuel (a substance that can be consumed to produce energy) AND the tank. I just don't have to re-fuel for several dozens (hundreds if I'm lucky) of flights. Batteries are consumable items and have a limited number of cycles before the internal chemical "fuel" is consumed. Charging the battery seems to me much like the action of a carburetor - it adds the "oxegenator" that allows the "fuel" to "burn". When I buy a battery pack I'm buying a year or two of "fuel" at one time.

Even that point is not the central point I was making tho. I wasn't asking for or recommending an increase in the weight limit as such. To me it seems more fair and reasonable to have a take-off weight limit as the standard rather than a dry weight limit. 

That would still give the glow/gas guys some advantage over electrics. As they burn off fuel towards the end of the routine, they will get lighter. My all up weight will only go down by a few billionths of a gram at most :)

As Troy pointed out, the rules are the rules and they may or may not change AND these are toys for having fun - so I'm going to do just that - have some fun!

This is a great list!

Larry
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Troy A. Newman 
  To: NSRCA Mailing List 
  Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 12:42 AM
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight limits for electrics?


  Reality is the Battery is not the fuel. It is the fuel tank. It holds the fuel.

  This is the way FAI has decided to handle the situation, and as a result the AMA pattern folks have decided to follow suit. Right or wrong it is the way it is.  
  <snip>
  Remember this is toy airplanes and its for fun. Anybody that throws a fit about a guy winning with an illegal (overweight) model should have to answer to the firing squad.



  Troy Newman
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Larry 
    To: patternrules at earthlink.net ; NSRCA Mailing List 
    Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 8:30 PM
    Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight limits for electrics?


    Hi Steve,

    That's pretty much what everyone tells me so far, but it doesn't sit quite rite. Makes me feel like I will be cheating and getting away with it because no one checks.

    It also seems like there is a double standard here and that the rules need to be re-evaluated. 

    A glow plane that weighs 5kg empty will definitely have a take off weight HIGHER than mine and yet it would be legal and I am not. It might even have a landing weight higher than mine depending on the size of the tank and length of the routine.

    I wonder if anyone is looking at this as more and more electrics are getting into all aspects of the hobby.

    I just saw in the Apr Kfactor in the D8 column, someone did a conversion and has similar issues - slightly over the 5KG limit with batteries installed.

    It seems to me that batteries should be considered "fuel" and not count towards the total weight OR that take off weight should be the determining factor.

    Ofcourse, as I said, I am a 100% newbie here. Haven't even flown in one contest yet :)

    Larry
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Steven Maxwell 
      To: NSRCA Mailing List 
      Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 7:53 PM
      Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight limits for electrics?


       I wouldn't worry about the weight. A little story to go along with that. At the 1984 Tangerine, one of the 3 top rated contest in the conutry then (Nat's and Rough River) my last conest as a sportsman thats when we had novice,I was winning by a slight margin, the last round on Sunday I got beat out of first by .07 point, so I got second, the 3rd place guy said that the winner had an illegal airplane, slightly over weight, and wanted me to protest, I told him that the guy beat me flying not because he had an overweight plane, and that if he wanted to protest do it his self, he didn't and the ending was finaI. I had already talked to the guy and he said his self that it probably was over weight, real nice about it (EU1A) not the first one of those that didn't make weight.
       So the story goes I don't remember either of the persons names, I do remember it as a fond memory, but I bet nobody can give me either persons names, 22 years later. My first journey to a big contest with no one along for the ride or to fly, just me it was a ball.
       So don't worry about unless you plane on placing at Nats then you need to make weight.

      Steven Maxwell


        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Larry 
        To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
        Sent: 5/13/2006 10:34:53 PM 
        Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] weight limits for electrics?


        Hi all,

        I am brand new to NSRCA and pattern flying in general. I am planning to attend my first ever event later this month.

        I noticed in the rules that the weight limit is 5Kg without fuel.

        How does this apply as far as electric powered planes are concerned? Are the batteries considered the fuel?

        I am asking because my plane is a Quest 90 G2 converted to electric power and it weighs 4.04 Kg "dry" (no batteries) but it weighs 5.33 Kg fully "fueled" with batteries installed.

        I have asked about this on RC Groups and been told not to worry, no one weighs planes except at the NATS.

        Has there been any official word on this? I don't want to feel like I'm cheating in a contest or "getting away" with something.

        Thanks!

        Larry


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