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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>WOW! I did step into the middle of things didn't I? :)
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>It looks to me like there are two separate but related
weight issues being debated. There also seem to be good points being made on all
sides of the issues.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>1)should the weight limit be raised or abandoned all
together - regardless of power source.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I don't really have a horse in that race, so I have no
informed opinion. I think big bipes might be cool tho!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>2)Is the current weight rule "fair" to
electrics?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>That I do have an opinion on. I think calling the
batteries the "fuel tank" is not correct. The battery is the fuel (a substance
that can be <STRONG>consumed</STRONG> to produce energy) AND the tank. I just
don't have to re-fuel for several dozens (hundreds if I'm lucky) of flights.
Batteries are consumable items and have a limited number of cycles before the
internal chemical "fuel" is consumed. Charging the battery seems to me much like
the action of a carburetor - it adds the "oxegenator" that allows the "fuel" to
"burn". When I buy a battery pack I'm buying a year or two of "fuel" at one
time.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Even that point is not the central point I was making tho.
I wasn't asking for or recommending an increase in the weight limit as such. To
me it seems more fair and reasonable to have a <STRONG>take-off</STRONG> weight
limit as the standard rather than a dry weight limit. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>That would still give the glow/gas guys some advantage
over electrics. As they burn off fuel towards the end of the routine, they
will get lighter. My all up weight will only go down by a few billionths of
a gram at most :)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>As Troy pointed out, the rules are the rules and they may
or may not change AND these are toys for having fun - so I'm going to do
just that - have some fun!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>This is a great list!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Larry</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=troy_newman@msn.com href="mailto:troy_newman@msn.com">Troy A.
Newman</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, May 14, 2006 12:42 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight
limits for electrics?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Reality is the Battery is not the fuel. It is the fuel
tank. It holds the fuel.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>This is the way FAI has decided to handle the situation,
and as a result the AMA pattern folks have decided to follow suit. Right or
wrong it is the way it is. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><snip></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Remember this is toy airplanes and its for fun. Anybody
that throws a fit about a guy winning with an illegal (overweight) model
should have to answer to the firing squad.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Troy Newman</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ledunn@centurytel.net href="mailto:ledunn@centurytel.net">Larry</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=patternrules@earthlink.net
href="mailto:patternrules@earthlink.net">patternrules@earthlink.net</A> ; <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 13, 2006 8:30
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight
limits for electrics?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Hi Steve,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>That's pretty much what everyone tells me so far, but
it doesn't sit quite rite. Makes me feel like I will be cheating and getting
away with it because no one checks.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>It also seems like there is a double standard
here and that the rules need to be re-evaluated. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>A glow plane that weighs 5kg empty
will definitely have a take off weight HIGHER than mine and yet it
would be legal and I am not. It might even have a landing weight higher than
mine depending on the size of the tank and length of the
routine.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I wonder if anyone is looking at this as more and more
electrics are getting into all aspects of the hobby.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I just saw in the Apr Kfactor in the D8 column,
someone did a conversion and has similar issues - slightly over the 5KG
limit with batteries installed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>It seems to me that batteries should be considered
"fuel" and not count towards the total weight OR that take off weight should
be the determining factor.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Ofcourse, as I said, I am a 100% newbie here. Haven't
even flown in one contest yet :)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Larry</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=patternrules@earthlink.net
href="mailto:patternrules@earthlink.net">Steven Maxwell</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 13, 2006 7:53
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
weight limits for electrics?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV> I wouldn't worry about the weight. A little story to go along
with that. At the 1984 Tangerine, one of the 3 top rated contest in the
conutry then (Nat's and Rough River) my last conest as a sportsman thats
when we had novice,I was winning by a slight margin, the last round on
Sunday I got beat out of first by .07 point, so I got second, the 3rd
place guy said that the winner had an illegal airplane, slightly over
weight, and wanted me to protest, I told him that the guy beat me flying
not because he had an overweight plane, and that if he wanted to protest
do it his self, he didn't and the ending was finaI. I had already
talked to the guy and he said his self that it probably was over weight,
real nice about it (EU1A) not the first one of those that didn't make
weight.</DIV>
<DIV> So the story goes I don't remember either of the persons names,
I do remember it as a fond memory, but I bet nobody can give me either
persons names, 22 years later. My first journey to a big contest with no
one along for the ride or to fly, just me it was a ball.</DIV>
<DIV> So don't worry about unless you plane on placing at Nats then
you need to make weight.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Steven Maxwell</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ledunn@centurytel.net
href="mailto:ledunn@centurytel.net">Larry</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To: </B><A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> 5/13/2006 10:34:53 PM </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion] weight
limits for electrics?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=2>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi all,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am brand new to NSRCA and pattern flying
in general. I am planning to attend my first ever event later this
month.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I noticed in the rules that the weight
limit is 5Kg <EM><U>without fuel.</U></EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><EM><U><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></U></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>How does this apply as far as electric
powered planes are concerned? Are the batteries considered the
fuel?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am asking because my plane is a Quest 90
G2 converted to electric power and it weighs 4.04 Kg "dry" (no
batteries) but it weighs 5.33 Kg fully "fueled" with batteries
installed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have asked about this on RC Groups and
been told not to worry, no one weighs planes except at the
NATS.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Has there been any official word on this? I
don't want to feel like I'm cheating in a contest or "getting away" with
something.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Larry</FONT></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
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