[NSRCA-discussion] weight limits for electrics?

Sat May 13 23:43:10 AKDT 2006

Reality is the Battery is not the fuel. It is the fuel tank. It holds the fuel.

This is the way FAI has decided to handle the situation, and as a result the AMA pattern folks have decided to follow suit. Right or wrong it is the way it is.  I don't see it as unfair its just the game we play. If the rule was changed to allow the model to be weighed without batts then the advantage would swing hugely in favor of electric powered models. And the models would change to be 11lb birds before batts and then carry 8-10amp batts with huge electric motor that are putting out 5-6kw. Again the game jumps up another notch. The real loop hole right now in the rules for AMA is there is no 42V limit. You guys flying AMA classes should be flying on 12S. This reduces the amp draw and makes the smaller pack capacities better suited. A 10S4P  5300pack say makes 2500watts. A 12S pack would reduce the current draw and you might get away with a 12S2P 4200mah pack. You just saved a ton weight going from 40 cells in the 10S4P to 24cells in the 12S2P pack.  Also the price is more inline as you are only buying 1/2 number of cells.  1/2 the number of cells means you have that many fewer cells to go bad, and you have that many fewer cells to keep balanced. The 12S system would require some products that probably don't exist today like good chargers to do 12s Packs, and ESC's and so on. This is where I would be spending my time if I was wanting to fly electric in AMA pattern classes. The price will reduce then and the current draw will be lower as a result of the high voltage.

Another reality is that current setups can make weigh with the batteries installed and so I see no need to change the rule. Batts are changing quickly and new cells are coming that lower the weight almost on a semi annual basis. So Fly the model enjoy it and enjoy flying pattern with it.

The weight limit has the intention of limiting the models based on power plant. Basically a 2M plane with a DA150 is not going to work. The engine displacement rule was removed years ago and a size 2m x 2m and a weight limit that was already in place of 5kg was used to keep the models from getting over blown and keep them within some limits.

Many Many models out there today are at the limit or close to it. We have pushed the models design to the limits of the rules. If it says 2M that's what we built, if it said 12lb then most models would be close to 12lb.   

Its just a case of how much can you do and still be "legal"  

Remember this is toy airplanes and its for fun. Anybody that throws a fit about a guy winning with an illegal (overweight) model should have to answer to the firing squad.

Troy Newman
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Larry 
  To: patternrules at earthlink.net ; NSRCA Mailing List 
  Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 8:30 PM
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight limits for electrics?

  Hi Steve,

  That's pretty much what everyone tells me so far, but it doesn't sit quite rite. Makes me feel like I will be cheating and getting away with it because no one checks.

  It also seems like there is a double standard here and that the rules need to be re-evaluated. 

  A glow plane that weighs 5kg empty will definitely have a take off weight HIGHER than mine and yet it would be legal and I am not. It might even have a landing weight higher than mine depending on the size of the tank and length of the routine.

  I wonder if anyone is looking at this as more and more electrics are getting into all aspects of the hobby.

  I just saw in the Apr Kfactor in the D8 column, someone did a conversion and has similar issues - slightly over the 5KG limit with batteries installed.

  It seems to me that batteries should be considered "fuel" and not count towards the total weight OR that take off weight should be the determining factor.

  Ofcourse, as I said, I am a 100% newbie here. Haven't even flown in one contest yet :)

  Larry
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Steven Maxwell 
    To: NSRCA Mailing List 
    Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 7:53 PM
    Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight limits for electrics?

     I wouldn't worry about the weight. A little story to go along with that. At the 1984 Tangerine, one of the 3 top rated contest in the conutry then (Nat's and Rough River) my last conest as a sportsman thats when we had novice,I was winning by a slight margin, the last round on Sunday I got beat out of first by .07 point, so I got second, the 3rd place guy said that the winner had an illegal airplane, slightly over weight, and wanted me to protest, I told him that the guy beat me flying not because he had an overweight plane, and that if he wanted to protest do it his self, he didn't and the ending was finaI. I had already talked to the guy and he said his self that it probably was over weight, real nice about it (EU1A) not the first one of those that didn't make weight.
     So the story goes I don't remember either of the persons names, I do remember it as a fond memory, but I bet nobody can give me either persons names, 22 years later. My first journey to a big contest with no one along for the ride or to fly, just me it was a ball.
     So don't worry about unless you plane on placing at Nats then you need to make weight.

    Steven Maxwell

      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Larry 
      To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
      Sent: 5/13/2006 10:34:53 PM 
      Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] weight limits for electrics?

      Hi all,

      I am brand new to NSRCA and pattern flying in general. I am planning to attend my first ever event later this month.

      I noticed in the rules that the weight limit is 5Kg without fuel.

      How does this apply as far as electric powered planes are concerned? Are the batteries considered the fuel?

      I am asking because my plane is a Quest 90 G2 converted to electric power and it weighs 4.04 Kg "dry" (no batteries) but it weighs 5.33 Kg fully "fueled" with batteries installed.

      I have asked about this on RC Groups and been told not to worry, no one weighs planes except at the NATS.

      Has there been any official word on this? I don't want to feel like I'm cheating in a contest or "getting away" with something.

      Thanks!

      Larry

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