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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Reality is the Battery is not the fuel. It is the fuel
tank. It holds the fuel.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>This is the way FAI has decided to handle the situation,
and as a result the AMA pattern folks have decided to follow suit. Right or
wrong it is the way it is. I don't see it as unfair its just the game we
play. If the rule was changed to allow the model to be weighed without batts
then the advantage would swing hugely in favor of electric powered models. And
the models would change to be 11lb birds before batts and then carry 8-10amp
batts with huge electric motor that are putting out 5-6kw. Again the game jumps
up another notch. The real loop hole right now in the rules for AMA is there is
no 42V limit. You guys flying AMA classes should be flying on 12S. This reduces
the amp draw and makes the smaller pack capacities better suited. A 10S4P
5300pack say makes 2500watts. A 12S pack would reduce the current draw and you
might get away with a 12S2P 4200mah pack. You just saved a ton weight going from
40 cells in the 10S4P to 24cells in the 12S2P pack. Also the price is more
inline as you are only buying 1/2 number of cells. 1/2 the number of cells
means you have that many fewer cells to go bad, and you have that many fewer
cells to keep balanced. The 12S system would require some products that probably
don't exist today like good chargers to do 12s Packs, and ESC's and so on. This
is where I would be spending my time if I was wanting to fly electric in AMA
pattern classes. The price will reduce then and the current draw will be lower
as a result of the high voltage.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Another reality is that current setups can make weigh with
the batteries installed and so I see no need to change the rule. Batts are
changing quickly and new cells are coming that lower the weight almost on a semi
annual basis. So Fly the model enjoy it and enjoy flying pattern with
it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>The weight limit has the intention of limiting the models
based on power plant. Basically a 2M plane with a DA150 is not going to work.
The engine displacement rule was removed years ago and a size 2m x 2m and a
weight limit that was already in place of 5kg was used to keep the models from
getting over blown and keep them within some limits.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Many Many models out there today are at the limit or close
to it. We have pushed the models design to the limits of the rules. If it says
2M that's what we built, if it said 12lb then most models would be close to
12lb. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Its just a case of how much can you do and still be
"legal" </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Remember this is toy airplanes and its for fun. Anybody
that throws a fit about a guy winning with an illegal (overweight) model should
have to answer to the firing squad.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Troy Newman</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ledunn@centurytel.net href="mailto:ledunn@centurytel.net">Larry</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=patternrules@earthlink.net
href="mailto:patternrules@earthlink.net">patternrules@earthlink.net</A> ; <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 13, 2006 8:30
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight
limits for electrics?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Hi Steve,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>That's pretty much what everyone tells me so far, but it
doesn't sit quite rite. Makes me feel like I will be cheating and getting away
with it because no one checks.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>It also seems like there is a double standard
here and that the rules need to be re-evaluated. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>A glow plane that weighs 5kg empty will definitely
have a take off weight HIGHER than mine and yet it would be legal and I am
not. It might even have a landing weight higher than mine depending on the
size of the tank and length of the routine.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I wonder if anyone is looking at this as more and more
electrics are getting into all aspects of the hobby.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I just saw in the Apr Kfactor in the D8 column, someone
did a conversion and has similar issues - slightly over the 5KG limit with
batteries installed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>It seems to me that batteries should be considered
"fuel" and not count towards the total weight OR that take off weight should
be the determining factor.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Ofcourse, as I said, I am a 100% newbie here. Haven't
even flown in one contest yet :)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Larry</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=patternrules@earthlink.net
href="mailto:patternrules@earthlink.net">Steven Maxwell</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 13, 2006 7:53
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight
limits for electrics?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV> I wouldn't worry about the weight. A little story to go along
with that. At the 1984 Tangerine, one of the 3 top rated contest in the
conutry then (Nat's and Rough River) my last conest as a sportsman thats
when we had novice,I was winning by a slight margin, the last round on
Sunday I got beat out of first by .07 point, so I got second, the 3rd place
guy said that the winner had an illegal airplane, slightly over weight, and
wanted me to protest, I told him that the guy beat me flying not because he
had an overweight plane, and that if he wanted to protest do it his self, he
didn't and the ending was finaI. I had already talked to the guy and he
said his self that it probably was over weight, real nice about it (EU1A)
not the first one of those that didn't make weight.</DIV>
<DIV> So the story goes I don't remember either of the persons names, I
do remember it as a fond memory, but I bet nobody can give me either persons
names, 22 years later. My first journey to a big contest with no one along
for the ride or to fly, just me it was a ball.</DIV>
<DIV> So don't worry about unless you plane on placing at Nats then you
need to make weight.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Steven Maxwell</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ledunn@centurytel.net
href="mailto:ledunn@centurytel.net">Larry</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To: </B><A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> 5/13/2006 10:34:53 PM </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion] weight
limits for electrics?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=2>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi all,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am brand new to NSRCA and pattern flying in
general. I am planning to attend my first ever event later this
month.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I noticed in the rules that the weight limit
is 5Kg <EM><U>without fuel.</U></EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><EM><U><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></U></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>How does this apply as far as electric
powered planes are concerned? Are the batteries considered the
fuel?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am asking because my plane is a Quest 90 G2
converted to electric power and it weighs 4.04 Kg "dry" (no
batteries) but it weighs 5.33 Kg fully "fueled" with batteries
installed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have asked about this on RC Groups and been
told not to worry, no one weighs planes except at the NATS.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Has there been any official word on this? I
don't want to feel like I'm cheating in a contest or "getting away" with
something.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Larry</FONT></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
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