[NSRCA-discussion] Falcon F3A batteries

Thu Mar 30 17:35:12 AKST 2006

I agree, but I think the manufacturers (or repackers) should at least test
the cells in the best approximate conditions that they can.  The Falcon F3A
pack is being advertised as an F3A pack.  It is configured for pattern
fliers.  What if Falcon tested the cells and only got 80 cycles for a pack.
We could probably expect less.  That might be helpful to know and I
certainly wouldn't want to spend $100 extra over the TP packs.  (of course
they wouldn't tell us but have they done this?)  If they got 200 cycles in
lab conditions that would be helpful as well.  I wouldn't expect that many
cycles in the real world but at least we know what they are capable of in
ideal conditions under our loads.

As far as being asked to "test" the cells by buying them, I do not agree.
If Falcon is going to charge more than TP which we all know what we can
expect then there should be a reason for it.  Is the warranty a true 6 month
warranty or prorated for a 6 month life span?  I am sure George would answer
this, I just never asked him.  If it is a true 6 month warranty then maybe
it is worth the risk.  If they can prove a XX% life increase over TP then it
might be worth it.

Just some ramblings.

Stuart

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Chad
Northeast
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 8:16 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Falcon F3A batteries

Stuart

For pattern I think here and RCU e-pattern forum has the best 
answers.....regardless of what anyone says I truely believe that the 
experiences posted by those flying e-power are truthful.  The 
manufacturers (thats a really bad use of the 
term)....assemblers/resellers IMO dont have any real idea of our market 
and what is required.  Personally I have kept a lot of data to back up 
my experiences...and gather more all the time.

Lab testing is fine (and useful to establish limits), but its still 
significantly more friendly than the conditions the average battery pack 
will see in the field....the temp swings, varying discharges, storage 
conditions/time, etc etc etc etc.  A lab test wont quantify those 
variables.  What it may tell you is that under xxx conditions you can 
expect 120 cycles from a pack...however break one of those xxx 
conditions and you may get one cycle...I think that is the part that 
many forget!

If the Falcon cells are Enerland (Flight Power Evo20's/Tanic/Polyquest 
and others use Enerland as well) then I think they will probably be good 
cells (heavier than TP for = capacity).....although they are quite new 
(in our sizes) and dont have the field use that the TP's do at this 
point so time still needs to tell the tale.  However our application 
only demands 6C average and maybe 13C extended burst so as the packs 
improve their discharge capability we stress them less so "budget" cells 
should be able to cut the mustard (I hope), therefore...more 
choices....lower prices.

If you want to avoid testing....exactly copy a setup that you know works 
(maybe someone you know is running electric)....at least that way you 
will have the absolute minimum number of stepping (tripping) stones to 
worry about.  The moment you try something new that no one else has 
tried....IMO you should accept the fact that your new e-power widget 
could let out the magic smoke at any time :)  If you are not willing to 
light a match to that money you should not be experimenting with new 
untried by others equipment.

Chad

Stuart Chale wrote:

>George has been quick with email responses and very courteous, but it
>doesn't seem like he has the answers either.  I can't find his original
>email but he was unable to say that there are people with over 100 cycles
on
>a pack.  He is convinced that their technology is better than TP but will
>that translate into a longer life span?  It seems like we are being asked
to
>test batteries for the manufacturers instead of them testing their products
>under our conditions.  
>
>Stuart
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Earl Haury
>Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 10:58 AM
>To: chad at f3acanada.org; NSRCA Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Falcon F3A batteries
>
>Chad
>
>Your questions are probably best answered by Falcon 
>George at FalconBatteries.com . I think that you'll find George quite open
with
>
>info, and I'd like to see your assessment of his answers.
>
>Earl
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Chad Northeast" <chadnortheast at shaw.ca>
>To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 9:42 AM
>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Falcon F3A batteries
>
>
>  
>
>>Earl
>>
>>Does the Falcon warranty cover simply manufacturers defects...or will they
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>replace any abuse/over charged/overdischarge/cycled out pack?
>>
>>I can't honestly believe that a manufacturer will replace every pack that 
>>fails, or they will be out of business in a short period of time :)  If 
>>that is the case I can buy 4 sets of packs and never again purchase 
>>another battery for as long as they will supply them regardless of usage.
>>
>>Just looking for some clarification on their warranty statement.
>>
>>Do you know who is making the cells?  Their other packs are APL I 
>>believe...wondering if they went to Enerland (like Apogee/Tanic/Flight 
>>Power) did for the higher C cells.
>>
>>Chad
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Grow Pattern <pattern4u at comcast.net>
>>Date: Thursday, March 30, 2006 8:26 am
>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Falcon F3A batteries
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Earl,
>>>        You raise a very interesting point, What is sponsored?
>>>
>>>I used to think it was either that you got paid to fly by a
>>>manufacturer/supplier/business, or that you got your equipment
>>>free. But
>>>what if, for example, you got a discount on your OS 1.40 EFI ,or
>>>free fuel
>>>etc. Or another would be that you bought and built a plane but
>>>your
>>>batteries were post gratis.
>>>
>>>This could be harder to define than a pattern snap-roll. Hmmmm?
>>>
>>>To be clear to the potentially-paranoid-pattern-people",  I am
>>>interested
>>>for my own edification. (No hidden agenda). I do get asked my
>>>opinion on
>>>certain subjects and when I am not sure, I ask for my opinion :-)
>>>
>>>I would also add that many of the responses to the electric issues
>>>that I
>>>have raised have given me a much better and more balanced view
>>>than the one
>>>I had a few months ago.
>>>
>>>So, thanks in advance,
>>>
>>>Eric.
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>From: "Earl Haury" <ehaury at houston.rr.com>
>>>To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 8:04 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Falcon F3A batteries
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Stuart
>>>>
>>>>I'm using the first 4 packs sold. I've 48 cycles on one set 18
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>on the
>>>      
>>>
>>>>other.
>>>>So far they've been fine, very little (if any) balancing
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>activity. Don't
>>>      
>>>
>>>>have any idea what the cycle life will be - only time will tell.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>As the
>>>      
>>>
>>>>weather improves, opportunity for more flying will accelerate cycle
>>>>accumulation a bunch. I hope that there's no need to exercise their
>>>>warranty, but it's a nice feature.
>>>>
>>>>Just so there's no misunderstanding - I gathered flight data to
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>help
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Falcon
>>>>define the pack parameters and received a bit of a discount
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>(that local
>>>      
>>>
>>>>sales tax mitigated) for that work. Don't know if that's considered
>>>>"sponsored", but I'm using them because they work and Falcon
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>provides> excellent service. (I understand that they had some
>>>website problems
>>>      
>>>
>>>>recently, if anyone has problems with it - a phone call will work.)
>>>>
>>>>Earl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>From: "Stuart Chale" <schale at optonline.net>
>>>>To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 6:32 AM
>>>>Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Falcon F3A batteries
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>Is anyone using the Falcon F3A cells advertised in the K-
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>Factor?  Is
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>there
>>>>>any track record behind them?
>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>Stuart
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>>>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>>>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
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>>>
>>>      
>>>
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>>
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