[NSRCA-discussion] Falcon F3A batteries

Robert Mairs robertm at sssnet.com
Fri Mar 31 03:07:03 AKST 2006 

# of cycles are a crap shoot.  It's 1 to who knows what.   Some just have 
better track records to look at.  I don't know why they're keeping 
everything a secrete on they're web site, doesn't really peak my interest to 
find out.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stuart Chale" <schale at optonline.net>
To: <chad at f3acanada.org>; "'NSRCA Mailing List'" 
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Falcon F3A batteries


>I agree, but I think the manufacturers (or repackers) should at least test
> the cells in the best approximate conditions that they can.  The Falcon 
> F3A
> pack is being advertised as an F3A pack.  It is configured for pattern
> fliers.  What if Falcon tested the cells and only got 80 cycles for a 
> pack.
> We could probably expect less.  That might be helpful to know and I
> certainly wouldn't want to spend $100 extra over the TP packs.  (of course
> they wouldn't tell us but have they done this?)  If they got 200 cycles in
> lab conditions that would be helpful as well.  I wouldn't expect that many
> cycles in the real world but at least we know what they are capable of in
> ideal conditions under our loads.
>
> As far as being asked to "test" the cells by buying them, I do not agree.
> If Falcon is going to charge more than TP which we all know what we can
> expect then there should be a reason for it.  Is the warranty a true 6 
> month
> warranty or prorated for a 6 month life span?  I am sure George would 
> answer
> this, I just never asked him.  If it is a true 6 month warranty then maybe
> it is worth the risk.  If they can prove a XX% life increase over TP then 
> it
> might be worth it.
>
> Just some ramblings.
>
> Stuart
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Chad
> Northeast
> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 8:16 PM
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Falcon F3A batteries
>
> Stuart
>
> For pattern I think here and RCU e-pattern forum has the best
> answers.....regardless of what anyone says I truely believe that the
> experiences posted by those flying e-power are truthful.  The
> manufacturers (thats a really bad use of the
> term)....assemblers/resellers IMO dont have any real idea of our market
> and what is required.  Personally I have kept a lot of data to back up
> my experiences...and gather more all the time.
>
> Lab testing is fine (and useful to establish limits), but its still
> significantly more friendly than the conditions the average battery pack
> will see in the field....the temp swings, varying discharges, storage
> conditions/time, etc etc etc etc.  A lab test wont quantify those
> variables.  What it may tell you is that under xxx conditions you can
> expect 120 cycles from a pack...however break one of those xxx
> conditions and you may get one cycle...I think that is the part that
> many forget!
>
> If the Falcon cells are Enerland (Flight Power Evo20's/Tanic/Polyquest
> and others use Enerland as well) then I think they will probably be good
> cells (heavier than TP for = capacity).....although they are quite new
> (in our sizes) and dont have the field use that the TP's do at this
> point so time still needs to tell the tale.  However our application
> only demands 6C average and maybe 13C extended burst so as the packs
> improve their discharge capability we stress them less so "budget" cells
> should be able to cut the mustard (I hope), therefore...more
> choices....lower prices.
>
> If you want to avoid testing....exactly copy a setup that you know works
> (maybe someone you know is running electric)....at least that way you
> will have the absolute minimum number of stepping (tripping) stones to
> worry about.  The moment you try something new that no one else has
> tried....IMO you should accept the fact that your new e-power widget
> could let out the magic smoke at any time :)  If you are not willing to
> light a match to that money you should not be experimenting with new
> untried by others equipment.
>
> Chad
>
> Stuart Chale wrote:
>
>>George has been quick with email responses and very courteous, but it
>>doesn't seem like he has the answers either.  I can't find his original
>>email but he was unable to say that there are people with over 100 cycles
> on
>>a pack.  He is convinced that their technology is better than TP but will
>>that translate into a longer life span?  It seems like we are being asked
> to
>>test batteries for the manufacturers instead of them testing their 
>>products
>>under our conditions.
>>
>>Stuart
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Earl Haury
>>Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 10:58 AM
>>To: chad at f3acanada.org; NSRCA Mailing List
>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Falcon F3A batteries
>>
>>Chad
>>
>>Your questions are probably best answered by Falcon
>>George at FalconBatteries.com . I think that you'll find George quite open
> with
>>
>>info, and I'd like to see your assessment of his answers.
>>
>>Earl
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "Chad Northeast" <chadnortheast at shaw.ca>
>>To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 9:42 AM
>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Falcon F3A batteries
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Earl
>>>
>>>Does the Falcon warranty cover simply manufacturers defects...or will 
>>>they
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>replace any abuse/over charged/overdischarge/cycled out pack?
>>>
>>>I can't honestly believe that a manufacturer will replace every pack that
>>>fails, or they will be out of business in a short period of time :)  If
>>>that is the case I can buy 4 sets of packs and never again purchase
>>>another battery for as long as they will supply them regardless of usage.
>>>
>>>Just looking for some clarification on their warranty statement.
>>>
>>>Do you know who is making the cells?  Their other packs are APL I
>>>believe...wondering if they went to Enerland (like Apogee/Tanic/Flight
>>>Power) did for the higher C cells.
>>>
>>>Chad
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: Grow Pattern <pattern4u at comcast.net>
>>>Date: Thursday, March 30, 2006 8:26 am
>>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Falcon F3A batteries
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Earl,
>>>>        You raise a very interesting point, What is sponsored?
>>>>
>>>>I used to think it was either that you got paid to fly by a
>>>>manufacturer/supplier/business, or that you got your equipment
>>>>free. But
>>>>what if, for example, you got a discount on your OS 1.40 EFI ,or
>>>>free fuel
>>>>etc. Or another would be that you bought and built a plane but
>>>>your
>>>>batteries were post gratis.
>>>>
>>>>This could be harder to define than a pattern snap-roll. Hmmmm?
>>>>
>>>>To be clear to the potentially-paranoid-pattern-people",  I am
>>>>interested
>>>>for my own edification. (No hidden agenda). I do get asked my
>>>>opinion on
>>>>certain subjects and when I am not sure, I ask for my opinion :-)
>>>>
>>>>I would also add that many of the responses to the electric issues
>>>>that I
>>>>have raised have given me a much better and more balanced view
>>>>than the one
>>>>I had a few months ago.
>>>>
>>>>So, thanks in advance,
>>>>
>>>>Eric.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>From: "Earl Haury" <ehaury at houston.rr.com>
>>>>To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 8:04 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Falcon F3A batteries
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Stuart
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm using the first 4 packs sold. I've 48 cycles on one set 18
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>on the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>other.
>>>>>So far they've been fine, very little (if any) balancing
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>activity. Don't
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>have any idea what the cycle life will be - only time will tell.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>As the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>weather improves, opportunity for more flying will accelerate cycle
>>>>>accumulation a bunch. I hope that there's no need to exercise their
>>>>>warranty, but it's a nice feature.
>>>>>
>>>>>Just so there's no misunderstanding - I gathered flight data to
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>help
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Falcon
>>>>>define the pack parameters and received a bit of a discount
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>(that local
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>sales tax mitigated) for that work. Don't know if that's considered
>>>>>"sponsored", but I'm using them because they work and Falcon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>provides> excellent service. (I understand that they had some
>>>>website problems
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>recently, if anyone has problems with it - a phone call will work.)
>>>>>
>>>>>Earl
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>From: "Stuart Chale" <schale at optonline.net>
>>>>>To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 6:32 AM
>>>>>Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Falcon F3A batteries
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Is anyone using the Falcon F3A cells advertised in the K-
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>Factor?  Is
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>there
>>>>>>any track record behind them?
>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>Stuart
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
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