[NSRCA-discussion] IMAC Vs Pattern Participation? Does theDogHunt on points made?

George Kennie geobet at gis.net
Fri Mar 3 09:14:46 AKST 2006


To me, it's astounding how many times I've seen guys show up at
their first contest and, for them, the schedules really ARE
unknowns.
I remember going to a contest back in 1969 and getting the schedule
from the CD and looking it over before flying and relying on my
caller to tell me what I should execute! The concept of learning a
schedule and actually practicing it before competing was certainly
beyond my grasp at the time (and I sometimes wonder about now).
G.






Bill Glaze wrote:

>   Dave:We agree.  I am wondering how the current pattern
> contestants would take having an unknown handed to them on
> Saturday A.M. at a "regular" contest.  It would count as one
> round, and could be a "throwaway" round under our conventional 6
> round contest.  I believe it could be fun; I got cleared by Dave
> Guerin to do it at his last BARKS contest in Fall of 2005; but I
> just didn't have time to research it enough to build 4 sequences,
> when I really don't know how it would be received.  I hate wasted
> effort!  Also, the contest is a successful one, and I don't want
> to "spoil" it for any of the regulars.  Don't know about this
> years efforts. Bill Glaze
>
>      ----- Original Message -----
>      From: davidmichael1 at comcast.net
>      To: NSRCA Mailing List
>      Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 5:35 PM
>      Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] IMAC Vs Pattern
>      Participation? Does theDogHunt on points made?
>       You are absolutely right, Bill.  I am probably
>      representative of most in this regard- the first few
>      years I flew the freestyle and enjoyed it very much.  As
>      time went on I did it less and less-  I haven't done one
>      in the last 2-3 years now.  I really like working on the
>      sequence and not as much on the freestyle as I used to.
>      My self expectations have gone up- no longer content
>      with just thinking things up as I go. Now, I'd like to
>      fly some freestyle again- but now my standards would
>      force me to develop and practice a whole routine
>      choreographed to music and with 3D mixed in to be happy
>      enough with my effort to go out in public with it! It
>      does help draw attention to the contest though- from a
>      spectator and contestant viewpoint.  It was part of why
>      I started flying IMAC- now I haven't flown freestyle but
>      I still fly the sequences - I have been hooked. I don't
>      see any harm in advertising and holding a seperate
>      freestyle/AA contest at the end of the day after a
>      pattern contest.  If noone shows- no loss.  If someone
>      does- it could be fun to do and or watch and might even
>      draw someone to participate.  That's the hook. Dave
>      Michael
>
>           -------------- Original message --------------
>
>           From: "Bill Glaze" <billglaze at triad.rr.com>
>
>           > Perhaps AA might help growth. As long as it
>           stays as an option. It is a
>           > fact that only 10-20 percent of the flyers
>           entering an IMAC contest elect to
>           > fly the freestyle. Most do not desire to do
>           so. Even at the JR Challenge,
>           > (in which I will be one of the judges)
>           probably less than 20% will opt for
>           > freestyle.
>           > Bill Glaze
>           > ----- Original Message -----
>           > From: "Michael Wickizer"
>           > To:
>           > Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 2:08 PM
>           > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] IMAC Vs
>           Pattern Participation? Does
>           > theDogHunt on points made?
>           >
>           >
>           > > Keith:
>           > >
>           > > While you say that in jest, it would
>           attract the younger! pilots and
>           > > specators. Perhaps it's time we think
>           about Artistic Aerobatics. Had
>           > > there
>           > > been IMAC in our area, I know of one pilot
>           who would have never flown
>           > > pattern (but now is hooked).
>           > >
>           > > Mike
>           > >
>           > >
>           > >>From: "Keith Black"
>           > >>Reply-To: NSRCA Mailing List
>           > >>To: "NSRCA Mailing List"
>           > >>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] IMAC Vs
>           Pattern Participation? Does
>           > >>theDogHunt on points made?
>           > >>Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:30:47 -0600
>           > >>
>           > >>Reading the comments here brings the
>           following to my attention.
>           > >>
>           > >>Loud "ballistic missile" pattern = Huge
>           popularity.
>           > >>Quite graceful pattern flying 150 m away =
>           Boring.
>           > >>Huge Loud IMAC pl! anes flying 3D = Huge
>           popularity.
>           > >>
>           > >>I bet if we add an "Extreme Pattern" class
>           where we do high slow rolls and
>           > >>snaps ten feed off the deck right over the
>           runway we'd become much more
>           > >>popular again. ;-)
>           > >>
>           > >>Keith Black
>           > >>
>           > >> ----- Original Message -----
>           > >> From: Bob Richards
>           > >> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>           > >> Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 8:55 AM
>           > >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] IMAC Vs
>           Pattern Participation? Does the
>           > >>DogHunt on points made?
>           > >>
>           > >>
>           > >> Larry,
>           > >>
>           > >> Good points.
>           > >>
>           > >> A little history, as best as I can
>           remember it.
>           > >>
>           > >> At one time, Pattern was the top of the
>           heap. I remember the first RC
>           > >>Modeler magazine I bought (circa 1972) had
>           coverage of the Masters
>           > >>competition! . RC Modeler carried coverage
>           of the large pattern contests
>           > >>back
>           > >>then. At some point (I don't remember
>           when, exactly) RCM (aka Don Dewey)
>           > >>became ticked off at the AMA because AMA
>           chose to publish their own
>           > >>magazine. This happened when American
>           Aircraft Modeler magazine went out
>           > >>of
>           > >>business, they had been publishing the AMA
>           News in the back of their
>           > >>magazine. It seemed to me that RCM no
>           longer covered pattern events after
>           > >>that. There was a big push by RCM to
>           promote the "Sport Flyers
>           > >>Association", anything AMA sanctioned was
>           left out. (This was my
>           > >>observation).
>           > >>
>           > >> Along came the TOC, which actually
>           started out with pattern models.
>           > >>Again, t! here was coverage. But, then the
>           TOC went the scale aerobatics
>           > >>route (and extra points for biplanes, an!
>           d extra points for mammoth planes
>           > >>-- the rest is hist ory).
>           > >>
>           > >> Pattern is no longer the premiere event
>           that it used to be. I think it
>           > >>all goes back to the WOW factor. There
>           also seemed to be a period where
>           > >>pattern flyers were looked down upon,
>           usually labeled "snobs". Thank
>           > >>goodnes that does not seem to be the case
>           anymore.
>           > >>
>           > >> I think the change from loud, ballistic
>           missle type flying to the
>           > >>turnaround style now has changed the
>           general modeling perception, although
>           > >>it took several years for the general
>           modeling public to recognize the
>           > >>change.
>           > >>
>           > >> However, the turnaround format seems to
>           have had both a positive and
>           > >>negative effect. The general modeling
>           public respects pattern more as a
>           > >>result, but it also SEEMS to be a barrier
>           for new participants. Again,
>           > >>this
>           > >>is ju! st my opinion.
>           > >>
>           > >> Bob R.
>           > >>
>           > >>
>           > >> Lisa & Larry wrote:
>           > >> Eric Henderson wrote**** If we knew why
>           we could probably fix it.
>           > >> ****
>           > >>
>           > >> From my viewpoint trying to get into
>           pattern around 1999 was a major
>           > >>challenge.
>           > >>
>           > >> I was first introduced to Pattern in
>           Southern California in 1985 when
>           > >>I went to watch a contest. It took another
>           15 years to have the time and
>           > >>money to do it. For me lack of time was
>           because of my service in the US
>           > >>Navy. Difficult to fly when your out at
>           sea and they don't fit too well in
>           > >>a locker on the ship.vbg
>           > >>
>           > >> ! It took me from 1999 to 2002 to find
>           somebody that new what pattern
>           > >>was. Everyone new IMAC and could point me
>           to a pilot ! that competed, but
>           > >>not
>           > >>Pattern.
>           > >>
>           > >> What does this mean? Either I'm not a
>           very smart cookie or Pattern is
>           > >>a very well kept secret (not much has
>           changed since 1999). So how is it
>           > >>that a person that new pattern existed
>           took the better part of 4 years to
>           > >>finally talk to someone that could help
>           get started?
>           > >>
>           > >> Over the last seven years we watched IMAC
>           ARF's take off and sell
>           > >> like
>           > >>hot cakes, only in the last couple years
>           have we seen Pattern ARF's on the
>           > >>market.
>           > >>
>           > >> I went to an RC Airshow north of
>           Bloomington, IN around the spring of
>           > >>2002. I watched a pilot fly an Extra for
>           an IMAC Sportsman Class Demo. I
>           > >>approached him and asked him about Pattern
>           and how to get started. His
>           > >>response was clear, "Why would you want to
>           fly a toy model plane when you
>           > >>can! fly a model of a real plane and do
>           the same thing!" Aside from an
>           > >>instant turn off from IMAC, it ! set the
>           tone of perception between IMAC
>           > >>and Pattern. I will most likely start
>           competing in IMAC this year as well
>           > >>as pattern. Mostly because there are more
>           IMAC contests in a 5 hour drive
>           > >>than there are pattern from where I'm
>           located.
>           > >>
>           > >> If you compare IMAC and Pattern I don't
>           think the dog hunts in most
>           > >> of
>           > >>the arguments I've seen posted in the last
>           few years as they reappear from
>           > >>time to time.
>           > >>
>           > >> 1) IMAC and Pattern planes compare in
>           cost. (That dog won't
>           > >> hunt
>           > >>on this point)
>           > >> 2) IMAC and Pattern take the same !
>           amount of practice time to
>           > >>be competitive in a given class. (That dog
>           won't hunt on this point)
>           > >> 3! ) IMAC and Pattern meets are
>           relatively the same driving
>           > > >distance for most. (That dog won't hunt
>           on this point)
>           > >> 4) I can find more IMAC contests than
>           Pattern contests (Dog
>           > >>might be tracking something on this one)
>           > >> 5) Sport pilots know more about IMAC than
>           they do pattern, this
>           > >>is speculative but I believe it's the
>           case. (Dog might be tracking
>           > >>something on this one)
>           > >>
>           > >> We need to do a better job marketing
>           Pattern. I think that IMAC has
>           > >>done great in this area. The TOC helped
>           IMAC grow and get the word out
>           > >>through coverage of a big event. I think
>           we can see a decline in IMAC
>           > >>since
>           > >>the last TOC. I have not seen or heard of
>           a big contest that gets the
>           > >>publicity that the TOC received. Even the
>           FAI World Pattern contest is not
>           > >>covered as well as the TOC was.
>           > >>
>           > >> How do you guys view t! hese points?
>           > >>
>           > >> Larry Diamond
>           > >> NSRCA 3083
>           > >>
>           > >> PS.What Eric does for Pattern in his
>           reporting to magazines is
>           > >>probably one of the key factors that he!
>           lps pattern stay afloat. Thanks
>           > >>Eric..
>           > >>
>           > >>
>           > >>
>           > >>
>           >
>           >>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>           > >>
>           > >>
>           > >>
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