[NSRCA-discussion] klipped to repost.. Snap

Fri Jul 7 09:34:30 AKDT 2006

Pattern flyer rule number 2: Real pattern flyers don't clank sticks....!
(nor do they let their friends clank sticks. [Even during snaps:-)] )

Chris

________________________________

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Glenn
Hatfield
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 11:54 AM
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] klipped to repost.. Snap

We need descriptive language that is widely understood.  We judge by the
rule book and not what is widely accepted.  If someone is judging by
what they understand is a snap and not what the rule book stands, then
they be a bad judge.  I have seen this many times,  we had a gentlemen
that judged snaps partially be what he heard from the sticks, instead of
what he saw. 

Randy

--- RLIPRIE at centurytel.net wrote:

From: "R. LIPRIE" <RLIPRIE at centurytel.net>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] klipped to repost.. Snap
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 11:32:37 -0500

I agree with Nat.

	----- Original Message ----- 

	From: Nat Penton 

	To: NSRCA Mailing List 

	Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 11:11 AM

	Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] klipped to repost.. Snap

	Del, the problem is "everyone has thier opinion and everyone has
to stick with what they feel is the correct way to address snaps".

	We need descriptive language that is widely accepted.

		----- Original Message ----- 

		From: Del K. Rykert 

		To: NSRCA Mailing List 

		Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 10:04 AM

		Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] klipped to repost.. Snap

		George and all...

		    Not to step on anyone's toes and many opinions are
flying... Some are very erroneous...  

		    I have my opinion and have to stick with what I feel
is the correct way to address snaps. 

		    I follow what is written in the rule book..  end of
story...  Part of the ambiguity stems from different aircraft and
different pilots use different inputs to produce their maneuver.  It is
left up to us judges to score what we see based on the Don Ramsey or the
rule book has said.  Has nothing to do with what a full scale snap may
look like..  has nothing to do with what a 1/3rd or 1.4 scale snap may
look like..  Different breed of cat and visually appear different...
IMHO..  

		    If someone was able to produce a visual file of what
is and what is not acceptable might help some..  Part of the problem we
as humans are expected to process visually and mentally what occurs
often in less than 1 sec for the meat of the maneuver and some are going
to not see some flaws when so much of the maneuver occurs is so a small
space and time.  Heaven forbid if a judge blinks or gets teary eyed from
wind at moment of execution.  I have been fooled by some and gave a
score..  I try my darndest to catch all those that try to fool me.  I am
only human but a very hard nosed judge.  Does that mean we shouldn't
have the snap in the schedule?   I myself think that is a pretty drastic
reaction.  

		    I try to follow what I was taught at judging
seminars.  focus on CG of aircraft. A definite break in flight path has
to occur if a true snap occurred.  I defy anyone to show me how and
airplane.. any airplane can do a true snap and at least not have had
some degree of break in flight path..  Correct me if I am all wet ...
Also the tail should show some conical movement along with the break..
have to be careful to not confuse some that do a barrel roll but still
have a little conical movement of tail..  I have seen it done.. and they
received their appropriate goose egg. 

		    Nothing is written about the aircraft speed being a
judging factor... before during or after the snap.. 

		    stepping down..  

		                     Del 
		          nsrca - 473

			----- Original Message ----- 

			From: george w. kennie 

			To: NSRCA Mailing List 

			Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 7:20 PM

			Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap

			I have received several e-mails from some very
accomplished pilots who have indicated that they are perplexed regarding
the requirements regarding the proper execution of the snap maneuver.
Specifically what needs to be shown to the judge in order to score well.
Even among the judging community there is a lack of consensus with many
misunderstandings of what constitutes a "break" and recognizing the
stalled condition and heaven forbid, the auto-rotation.

			It is apparent that a standard needs to be
adopted that will once and for all end the individualized
interpretations being submitted from all quarters (mine included).

			If indeed there is a correct process involved to
bring about the proper execution of this maneuver, then it should be
possible for the people responsible for handing down the final
definitives, to single out the pilot who consistantly performs this
maneuver to the precise satisfaction of their judging criteria and have
the performance video-taped and made part of the NSRCA web-site and
eliminate the confusion.

			This will enable anyone to visit the web-site,
observe the process, and come away with the full knowledge of how to (as
Robert Gainey says) score TENS !

			 Yeah, Me.......(who else?)  

				----- Original Message ----- 

				From: Tommy Scarmardo 

				To: NSRCA Mailing List 

				Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 2:38 PM

				Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap

				George,

				Kinda like when the judges tell us to
slow down, we're flying too fast !

				tommy s

				"george w. kennie" <geobet at gis.net>
wrote:

				John,
				I think I have a problem with #1.
				I think the pilot's responsibility is to
perform the maneuver correctly.
				The Judges responsibility is to know
what a correctly performed maneuver 
				looks like and then to score it
accurately.
				The pilot has no responsibility to
satisfy a judge who may be inept.
				G.

				----- Original Message ----- 
				From: "John Ferrell" 
				To: "NSRCA Mailing List" 
				Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 10:20 AM
				Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap

				> >From my point of view:
				> 1. It remains the pilot's
responsibility to satisfy the judges.
				> 2. What is and is not a snap is
defined by our rules.
				> 3. All airplanes do not snap alike,
see #1.
				> 4. "Burying the Snap" by over
controlling will eventually put you in a
				> situation that will score poorly.
				>
				> IMHO:
				> Those of us with a chronic problem of
over controlling usually wind up
				> selecting control travel limits based
on what it takes to snap and spin.
				> Those with the gift of fine motor
control can get away with more sensitive
				> controls.
				>
				> John Ferrell W8CCW
				> "My Competition is not my enemy"
				> http://DixieNC.US
				>

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