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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Pattern flyer rule number 2: Real pattern
flyers don’t clank sticks….! (nor do they let their friends
clank sticks. [Even during snaps</span></font><font size=2 color=navy
face=Wingdings><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>] )<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Chris<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Glenn Hatfield<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, July 07, 2006 11:54
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
klipped to repost.. Snap</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>We need descriptive language that is widely
understood. We judge by the rule book and not what is widely
accepted. If someone is judging by what they understand is a snap and not
what the rule book stands, then they be a bad judge. I have seen this
many times, we had a gentlemen that judged snaps partially be what he
heard from the sticks, instead of what he saw. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Randy<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><br>
<br>
--- RLIPRIE@centurytel.net wrote:<br>
<br>
From: "R. LIPRIE" <RLIPRIE@centurytel.net><br>
To: "<st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName>"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] klipped to repost.. Snap<br>
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 11:32:37 -0500<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I agree with Nat.</span></font><font face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Nat Penton <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Friday, July 07,
2006 11:11 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] klipped to repost.. Snap<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Del</span></font></st1:place></st1:State><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>, the
problem is "everyone has thier opinion and everyone has to stick with what
they feel is the correct way to address snaps".</span></font><font
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>We need descriptive language that is widely accepted.</span></font><font
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Del K.
Rykert <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Friday, July 07,
2006 10:04 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> [NSRCA-discussion]
klipped to repost.. Snap<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>George and all...</span></font><font face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> Not to step on anyone's toes and many
opinions are flying... Some are very erroneous... </span></font><font
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> I have my opinion and have to stick with
what I feel is the correct way to address snaps. </span></font><font
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> I follow what is written in the rule
book.. end of story... Part of the ambiguity stems from different
aircraft and different pilots use different inputs to produce their
maneuver. It is left up to us judges to score what we see based on the
Don Ramsey or the rule book has said. Has nothing to do with what a full
scale snap may look like.. has nothing to do with what a 1/3rd or 1.4
scale snap may look like.. Different breed of cat and visually appear
different... IMHO.. </span></font><font face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> If someone was able to produce a visual
file of what is and what is not acceptable might help some.. Part of the
problem we as humans are expected to process visually and mentally what occurs
often in less than 1 sec for the meat of the maneuver and some are going to not
see some flaws when so much of the maneuver occurs is so a small space and
time. Heaven forbid if a judge blinks or gets teary eyed from wind at
moment of execution. I have been fooled by some and gave a score..
I try my darndest to catch all those that try to fool me. I am only human
but a very hard nosed judge. Does that mean we shouldn't have the snap in
the schedule? I myself think that is a pretty drastic
reaction. </span></font><font face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> I try to follow what I was taught at
judging seminars. focus on CG of aircraft. A definite break in flight
path has to occur if a true snap occurred. I defy anyone to show me how
and airplane.. any airplane can do a true snap and at least not have had some
degree of break in flight path.. Correct me if I am all wet ...
Also the tail should show some conical movement along with the
break.. have to be careful to not confuse some that do a barrel
roll but still have a little conical movement of tail.. I have seen it
done.. and they received their appropriate goose egg. </span></font><font
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> Nothing is written about the aircraft
speed being a judging factor... before during or after the snap.. </span></font><font
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> stepping down.. </span></font><font
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>
<st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Del</st1:place></st1:State> <br>
nsrca - 473</span></font><font
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> george w.
kennie <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Wednesday, July
05, 2006 7:20 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Snap<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I have received several e-mails from some very accomplished
pilots who have indicated that they are perplexed regarding the requirements
regarding the proper execution of the snap maneuver. Specifically what needs to
be shown to the judge in order to score well. Even among the judging community
there is a lack of consensus with many misunderstandings of what constitutes a
"break" and recognizing the stalled condition and heaven forbid, the
auto-rotation.</span></font><font face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>It is apparent that a standard needs to be adopted that will
once and for all end the individualized interpretations being submitted from
all quarters (mine included).</span></font><font face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>If indeed there is a correct process involved to bring about
the proper execution of this maneuver, then it should be possible for the
people responsible for handing down the final definitives, to single out the
pilot who consistantly performs this maneuver to the precise satisfaction of
their judging criteria and have the performance video-taped and made part of
the NSRCA web-site and eliminate the confusion.</span></font><font face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>This will enable anyone to visit the web-site, observe the
process, and come away with the full knowledge of how to (as Robert Gainey
says) score TENS !</span></font><font face=Arial><span style='font-family:
Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> Yeah, Me.......(who else?) </span></font><font
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Tommy
Scarmardo <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Tuesday, July 04,
2006 2:38 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Snap<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>George,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Kinda like when the judges tell us to slow down, we're
flying too fast !<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>tommy s<br>
<br>
<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>"george w.
kennie" <geobet@gis.net></span></i></b> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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John,<br>
I think I have a problem with #1.<br>
I think the pilot's responsibility is to perform the maneuver correctly.<br>
The Judges responsibility is to know what a correctly performed maneuver <br>
looks like and then to score it accurately.<br>
The pilot has no responsibility to satisfy a judge who may be inept.<br>
G.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
----- Original Message ----- <br>
From: "John Ferrell" <br>
To: "<st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName>" <br>
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 10:20 AM<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap<br>
<br>
<br>
> >From my point of view:<br>
> 1. It remains the pilot's responsibility to satisfy the judges.<br>
> 2. What is and is not a snap is defined by our rules.<br>
> 3. All airplanes do not snap alike, see #1.<br>
> 4. "Burying the Snap" by over controlling will eventually put
you in a<br>
> situation that will score poorly.<br>
><br>
> IMHO:<br>
> Those of us with a chronic problem of over controlling usually wind up<br>
> selecting control travel limits based on what it takes to snap and spin.<br>
> Those with the gift of fine motor control can get away with more sensitive<br>
> controls.<br>
><br>
> John Ferrell W8CCW<br>
> "My Competition is not my enemy"<br>
> http://DixieNC.US<br>
><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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