[NSRCA-discussion] klipped to repost.. Snap

Fri Jul 7 07:45:57 AKDT 2006

Hi Del,  

Thanks for sharing your comments.  A break in "pitch" is not the same as a
break in "flight-path."  A break in "pitch" (and roll and yaw) initiate the
snap - a break in "flight-path" simply indicates that the plane flew off the
line and should be downgraded 1 pt/15 deg..  Looking for the conical
rotation of the tail/nose is a good thing, as this can be observed while the
snap is in process and must be present for it to be a snap.  Examining the
post maneuver flight-path deviation is not an indicator a snap took place -
it just indicates the flight-path was deviated - again, downgrade.  It is
not the pilot's job to defy the judge's expectation of aircraft performance
- it's the pilot's job to fly the maneuver and retain as many points as
possible.  In my opinion the conical rotation of the tail is a far better
overall indicator that a snap is taking place, than attempting to
disassociate the flight axis and say, "X must happen before Y, and flight
path must be deviated" for the pilot to demonstrate he snap rolled his
plane.  This conflicts with the other scoring elements of the maneuver.
It is possible to break in pitch and not break the flight-path in a
significant way or at all.

Thanks,

Jim W.

  _____  

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Del K. Rykert
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 11:04 AM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] klipped to repost.. Snap

George and all...

    Not to step on anyone's toes and many opinions are flying... Some are
very erroneous...  

    I have my opinion and have to stick with what I feel is the correct way
to address snaps. 

    I follow what is written in the rule book..  end of story...  Part of
the ambiguity stems from different aircraft and different pilots use
different inputs to produce their maneuver.  It is left up to us judges to
score what we see based on the Don Ramsey or the rule book has said.  Has
nothing to do with what a full scale snap may look like..  has nothing to do
with what a 1/3rd or 1.4 scale snap may look like..  Different breed of cat
and visually appear different...  IMHO..  

    If someone was able to produce a visual file of what is and what is not
acceptable might help some..  Part of the problem we as humans are expected
to process visually and mentally what occurs often in less than 1 sec for
the meat of the maneuver and some are going to not see some flaws when so
much of the maneuver occurs is so a small space and time.  Heaven forbid if
a judge blinks or gets teary eyed from wind at moment of execution.  I have
been fooled by some and gave a score..  I try my darndest to catch all those
that try to fool me.  I am only human but a very hard nosed judge.  Does
that mean we shouldn't have the snap in the schedule?   I myself think that
is a pretty drastic reaction.  

    I try to follow what I was taught at judging seminars.  focus on CG of
aircraft. A definite break in flight path has to occur if a true snap
occurred.  I defy anyone to show me how and airplane.. any airplane can do a
true snap and at least not have had some degree of break in flight path..
Correct me if I am all wet ...  Also the tail should show some conical
movement along with the break..   have to be careful to not confuse some
that do a barrel roll but still have a little conical movement of tail..  I
have seen it done.. and they received their appropriate goose egg. 

    Nothing is written about the aircraft speed being a judging factor...
before during or after the snap.. 

    stepping down..  

                     Del 
          nsrca - 473

----- Original Message ----- 

From: george w. kennie <mailto:geobet at gis.net>  

To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 7:20 PM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap

I have received several e-mails from some very accomplished pilots who have
indicated that they are perplexed regarding the requirements regarding the
proper execution of the snap maneuver. Specifically what needs to be shown
to the judge in order to score well. Even among the judging community there
is a lack of consensus with many misunderstandings of what constitutes a
"break" and recognizing the stalled condition and heaven forbid, the
auto-rotation.

It is apparent that a standard needs to be adopted that will once and for
all end the individualized interpretations being submitted from all quarters
(mine included).

If indeed there is a correct process involved to bring about the proper
execution of this maneuver, then it should be possible for the people
responsible for handing down the final definitives, to single out the pilot
who consistantly performs this maneuver to the precise satisfaction of their
judging criteria and have the performance video-taped and made part of the
NSRCA web-site and eliminate the confusion.

This will enable anyone to visit the web-site, observe the process, and come
away with the full knowledge of how to (as Robert Gainey says) score TENS !

 Yeah, Me.......(who else?)  

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Tommy Scarmardo <mailto:tretas513 at yahoo.com>  

To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 2:38 PM

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap

George,

Kinda like when the judges tell us to slow down, we're flying too fast !

tommy s

"george w. kennie" <geobet at gis.net> wrote:

John,
I think I have a problem with #1.
I think the pilot's responsibility is to perform the maneuver correctly.
The Judges responsibility is to know what a correctly performed maneuver 
looks like and then to score it accurately.
The pilot has no responsibility to satisfy a judge who may be inept.
G.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Ferrell" 
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" 
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap

> >From my point of view:
> 1. It remains the pilot's responsibility to satisfy the judges.
> 2. What is and is not a snap is defined by our rules.
> 3. All airplanes do not snap alike, see #1.
> 4. "Burying the Snap" by over controlling will eventually put you in a
> situation that will score poorly.
>
> IMHO:
> Those of us with a chronic problem of over controlling usually wind up
> selecting control travel limits based on what it takes to snap and spin.
> Those with the gift of fine motor control can get away with more sensitive
> controls.
>
> John Ferrell W8CCW
> "My Competition is not my enemy"
> http://DixieNC.US
>

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