<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]--><o:SmartTagType
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"
downloadurl="http://www.5iamas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="place" downloadurl="http://www.5iantlavalamp.com/"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="PersonName" downloadurl="http://www.microsoft.com"/>
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoPlainText, li.MsoPlainText, div.MsoPlainText
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
p.MsoAutoSig, li.MsoAutoSig, div.MsoAutoSig
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Del</st1:place></st1:State>,
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks for sharing your comments. A
break in “pitch” is not the same as a break in “flight-path.”
A break in “pitch” (and roll and yaw) initiate the snap –
a break in “flight-path” simply indicates that the plane flew off
the line and should be downgraded 1 pt/15 deg.. Looking for the conical rotation
of the tail/nose is a good thing, as this can be observed while the snap is in
process and must be present for it to be a snap. Examining the post
maneuver flight-path deviation is not an indicator a snap took place – it
just indicates the flight-path was deviated – again, downgrade. It
is not the pilot’s job to defy the judge’s expectation of aircraft
performance – it’s the pilot’s job to fly the maneuver and
retain as many points as possible. In my opinion the conical rotation of
the tail is a far better overall indicator that a snap is taking place, than attempting
to disassociate the flight axis and say, “X must happen before Y,
and flight path must be deviated” for the pilot to demonstrate he snap
rolled his plane. This conflicts with the other scoring elements of the
maneuver. It is possible to break in pitch and not break the
flight-path in a significant way or at all.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jim W.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Del K. Rykert<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, July 07, 2006 11:04
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [NSRCA-discussion]
klipped to repost.. Snap</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>George and all...</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> Not to step on anyone's toes and many
opinions are flying... Some are very erroneous... </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> I have my opinion and have to stick with
what I feel is the correct way to address snaps. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> I follow what is written in the rule
book.. end of story... Part of the ambiguity stems from different
aircraft and different pilots use different inputs to produce their
maneuver. It is left up to us judges to score what we see based on the
Don Ramsey or the rule book has said. Has nothing to do with what a full
scale snap may look like.. has nothing to do with what a 1/3rd or 1.4
scale snap may look like.. Different breed of cat and visually appear
different... IMHO.. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> If someone was able to produce a visual
file of what is and what is not acceptable might help some.. Part of the
problem we as humans are expected to process visually and mentally what occurs
often in less than 1 sec for the meat of the maneuver and some are going to not
see some flaws when so much of the maneuver occurs is so a small space and
time. Heaven forbid if a judge blinks or gets teary eyed from wind at
moment of execution. I have been fooled by some and gave a score..
I try my darndest to catch all those that try to fool me. I am only human
but a very hard nosed judge. Does that mean we shouldn't have the snap in
the schedule? I myself think that is a pretty drastic
reaction. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> I try to follow what I was taught at
judging seminars. focus on CG of aircraft. A definite break in flight
path has to occur if a true snap occurred. I defy anyone to show me how
and airplane.. any airplane can do a true snap and at least not have had some
degree of break in flight path.. Correct me if I am all wet ...
Also the tail should show some conical movement along with the
break.. have to be careful to not confuse some that do a barrel
roll but still have a little conical movement of tail.. I have seen it
done.. and they received their appropriate goose egg. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> Nothing is written about the aircraft
speed being a judging factor... before during or after the snap.. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> stepping down.. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>
<st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Del</st1:place></st1:State> <br>
nsrca - 473</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:geobet@gis.net" title="geobet@gis.net">george w. kennie</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Wednesday, July
05, 2006 7:20 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Snap<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I have received several e-mails from some very accomplished
pilots who have indicated that they are perplexed regarding the requirements
regarding the proper execution of the snap maneuver. Specifically what needs to
be shown to the judge in order to score well. Even among the judging community
there is a lack of consensus with many misunderstandings of what constitutes a
"break" and recognizing the stalled condition and heaven forbid, the
auto-rotation.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>It is apparent that a standard needs to be adopted that will
once and for all end the individualized interpretations being submitted from
all quarters (mine included).</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>If indeed there is a correct process involved to bring about
the proper execution of this maneuver, then it should be possible for the
people responsible for handing down the final definitives, to single out the
pilot who consistantly performs this maneuver to the precise satisfaction of
their judging criteria and have the performance video-taped and made part of
the NSRCA web-site and eliminate the confusion.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>This will enable anyone to visit the web-site, observe the
process, and come away with the full knowledge of how to (as Robert Gainey
says) score TENS !</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> Yeah, Me.......(who else?) </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:tretas513@yahoo.com" title="tretas513@yahoo.com">Tommy Scarmardo</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Tuesday, July 04,
2006 2:38 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Snap<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>George,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Kinda like when the judges tell us to slow down, we're flying too fast
!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>tommy s<br>
<br>
<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>"george w.
kennie" <<a href="mailto:geobet@gis.net">geobet@gis.net</a>></span></i></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
John,<br>
I think I have a problem with #1.<br>
I think the pilot's responsibility is to perform the maneuver correctly.<br>
The Judges responsibility is to know what a correctly performed maneuver <br>
looks like and then to score it accurately.<br>
The pilot has no responsibility to satisfy a judge who may be inept.<br>
G.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
----- Original Message ----- <br>
From: "John Ferrell" <br>
<JOHNFERRELL@EARTHLINK.NET>To: "<st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing
List</st1:PersonName>" <br>
<NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG>Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 10:20 AM<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap<br>
<br>
<br>
> >From my point of view:<br>
> 1. It remains the pilot's responsibility to satisfy the judges.<br>
> 2. What is and is not a snap is defined by our rules.<br>
> 3. All airplanes do not snap alike, see #1.<br>
> 4. "Burying the Snap" by over controlling will eventually put
you in a<br>
> situation that will score poorly.<br>
><br>
> IMHO:<br>
> Those of us with a chronic problem of over controlling usually wind up<br>
> selecting control travel limits based on what it takes to snap and spin.<br>
> Those with the gift of fine motor control can get away with more sensitive<br>
> controls.<br>
><br>
> John Ferrell W8CCW<br>
> "My Competition is not my enemy"<br>
> http://DixieNC.US<br>
><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</body>
</html>