[NSRCA-discussion] PowerPoint Presentations
R. LIPRIE
RLIPRIE at centurytel.net
Mon Jul 3 15:21:26 AKDT 2006
Zero from my chair, I dont except that.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Ferrell" <johnferrell at earthlink.net>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] PowerPoint Presentations
> Me too. No break. Quick roll with excess rudder. A zero from my chair.
>
> NICE photograpy though...
>
> John Ferrell W8CCW
> "My Competition is not my enemy"
> http://DixieNC.US
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George Miller" <glmiller3 at cox.net>
> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 9:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] PowerPoint Presentations
>
>
>>
>>
>> Am I missing something here? Those just don't look like snap rolls to
>> me!
>>
>> G
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jim Woodward" <jim.woodward at schroth.com>
>> To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 7:30 AM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] PowerPoint Presentations
>>
>>
>>> Hi Guys,
>>>
>>> http://www.aircraftstudiodesign.com/pittspython/gallery.php
>>>
>>> Regarding snaps, take a look at this video page of the new Pitts
>>> bi-plane.
>>> There are links to a "vertical snap" video, and a "double snap" on take
>>> off
>>> video. The angle of each video is great. The pilot is kind enough to
>>> have
>>> the smoke on during the takeoff snaps. These videos just demonstrate to
>>> me
>>> that the model community is getting way too picky in trying to state
>>> that
>>> the plane must do "x" before it does "y" to receive max points. In a
>>> practical sense the closer the pilot is to getting a 10 or
>>> "maintaining-track" during a snap, the closer he is to getting a zero or
>>> at
>>> least severely downgraded, primarily because the judges are instructed
>>> to
>>> look for an over exaggerated criteria of "pitch-break" first. The loop
>>> of
>>> pilot control input, plane's reaction, and judge perception (or grading
>>> of
>>> maneuver observation based on this staggered snap judging criteria), is
>>> different for each skill level of pilot and skill level of judge. Also,
>>> the
>>> judging criteria seems to lock in a particular single sequence of
>>> transmitter usage (IE, elevator first then other inputs). Does that mean
>>> that any pilot that uses a snap button - which inputs all control inputs
>>> at
>>> once, automatically receives a severe downgrade? Should there be a rule
>>> to
>>> outlaw snap buttons? Also, the faster the pilot can input the elevator
>>> then
>>> other controls, correspondingly reduces the effect the judges are
>>> instructed
>>> to look for (IE, pitch break first). Also, there seems to be a belief by
>>> some that you cannot perform a good snap roll without deviating the
>>> line -
>>> (IE, someone states "...I know it was a snap because you had to correct
>>> the
>>> line afterward). Thus, to my reading, there exists conflicting
>>> judging/scoring criteria for this maneuver. What is also neglected in
>>> the
>>> current definition is that where it states 'speed of the snap is not a
>>> judging criteria' (seemingly intented to protect folks who want to
>>> perform
>>> a
>>> docile slowly rotating snap) however - judges are quick to say -
>>> "...pilot
>>> uses is too much aileron". Is 45 degrees of aileron throw too much?
>>>
>>> I personally like what has happened to clarify the spins and hope a
>>> similar
>>> approach can be taken or is underway with the snap definition. My
>>> opinion
>>> has changed a bit on this particular topic as I started flying sequences
>>> that require more of these maneuvers to be done. If you spend a lot of
>>> time
>>> practicing them on straight lines, 45s, and looping maneuver
>>> (avalanches),
>>> the conversation quickly moves from theoretical to practical. The snaps
>>> in
>>> these two video links would be severally downgraded or zeroed according
>>> to
>>> the precision aerobatics definitions. Food for thought. Not about me,
>>> just
>>> about the snap definition and critera.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jim W.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Don
>>> Ramsey
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 6:27 PM
>>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] PowerPoint Presentations
>>>
>>> A slow roll is acceptable.
>>>
>>> DR
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ed Miller" <edbon85 at charter.net>
>>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 3:49 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] PowerPoint Presentations
>>>
>>>
>>>> Concerning the Master schedule 1/2 loop with full roll out. Is a slow
>>>> roll
>>>> acceptable on the full roll out or must it be a fast axial roll ??
>>>> Ed M.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Don Ramsey" <don.ramsey at cox.net>
>>>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 11:54 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] PowerPoint Presentations
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Adam,
>>>>>
>>>>> 404-2: The stall turn must be in the direction of flight.
>>>>> 404-7: The humpty is defined as 1/4 roll up and 3/4 roll down.
>>>>> That's
>>>>> 3/4 down and not 3 of 4.
>>>>> 404-12: Slow roll should be a minimum of 3 seconds
>>>>> 404-18: AMA rule on snaps is on page 78 of the rulebook. You can get
>>>>> to
>>>>> the rulebook through the judging site where the Powerpoint
>>>>> presentations
>>>>> are
>>>>> found. But in a nutshell:
>>>>> 1. Since the maneuver is defined as a stall maneuver (initiated by a
>>>>> rapid
>>>>> stall of the wing induced by a change in pitch attitude), the nose of
>>>>> the
>>>>> fuselage should show a definite break from the flight path in the
>>>>> direction
>>>>> of the snap (positive or negative) while the track closely maintains
>>>>> the
>>>>> flight path. The track visualized as the path of the Center of Gravity
>>>>> (CG)
>>>>> should ideally follow the geometric flight path of the maneuver while
>>>>> the
>>>>> nose and tail autorotate through opposite helical arcs around the
>>>>> flight
>>>>> path. A snap that does not show a break and stall to initiate the
>>>>> snap,
>>>>> but
>>>>> does enter a stalled attitude during the maneuver is severely
>>>>> downgraded.
>>>>>
>>>>> So
>>>>> * lack of a definite break of the nose is not a zero but severe
>>>>> downgrade
>>>>> * track of CG should ideally follow the geometry of the maneuver for
>>>>> max
>>>>> points
>>>>> Other Points:
>>>>> * Barrel roll or axial roll is a zero
>>>>> * Speed of snap is not a judging criteria
>>>>> * Airspeed may decrease in the snap with no downgrade
>>>>> * If model is roll to a finish the downgrade is applied using 1 pt per
>>>>> 15
>>>>> degree rule.
>>>>>
>>>>> Don
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Adam Glatt" <adam.g at sasktel.net>
>>>>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 10:29 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] PowerPoint Presentations
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Good stuff, Don. These are very helpful for learning a schedule that
>>>>>> you don't fly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a few questions about judging Masters that I recommend should
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> answered on the presentation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 404-2: Does the stall turn itself have to rotate in the upwind
>>>>>> direction?
>>>>>> 404-7: There seems to be an option here, but 2of2 has the same name
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> 1of2, though the Arrestis are different.
>>>>>> 404-12: What is the rule book definition of 'slow?'
>>>>>> 404-18: The rulebook definition/description of a snap?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Adam
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don Ramsey wrote:
>>>>>>> For those who may be judging Advanced, Masters, P-07 and especially
>>>>>>> F3A wednesday judges for F-07 there are PowerPoint presentations on
>>>>>>> the NSRCA judging page
>>>>>>> http://www.nsrca.org/competition/judging/judging.htm. Look for the
>>>>>>> link near the bottom of the Judging Home Page.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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