[NSRCA-discussion] PowerPoint Presentations

Mon Jul 3 17:16:24 AKDT 2006

Do you mean "accept"? Watch your spelling - pattern guys are very picky
<VBG>

John Pavlick
http://www.idseng.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of R. LIPRIE
> Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 7:21 PM
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] PowerPoint Presentations
>
>
> Zero from my chair, I dont except that.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Ferrell" <johnferrell at earthlink.net>
> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 2:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] PowerPoint Presentations
>
>
> > Me too. No break.  Quick roll with excess rudder. A zero from my chair.
> >
> > NICE photograpy though...
> >
> > John Ferrell    W8CCW
> > "My Competition is not my enemy"
> > http://DixieNC.US
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "George Miller" <glmiller3 at cox.net>
> > To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> > Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 9:44 AM
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] PowerPoint Presentations
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Am I missing something here?  Those just don't look like snap rolls to
> >> me!
> >>
> >> G
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Jim Woodward" <jim.woodward at schroth.com>
> >> To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >> Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 7:30 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] PowerPoint Presentations
> >>
> >>
> >>> Hi Guys,
> >>>
> >>> http://www.aircraftstudiodesign.com/pittspython/gallery.php
> >>>
> >>> Regarding snaps, take a look at this video page of the new Pitts
> >>> bi-plane.
> >>> There are links to a "vertical snap" video, and a "double
> snap" on take
> >>> off
> >>> video.  The angle of each video is great.  The pilot is kind enough to
> >>> have
> >>> the smoke on during the takeoff snaps.  These videos just
> demonstrate to
> >>> me
> >>> that the model community is getting way too picky in trying to state
> >>> that
> >>> the plane must do "x" before it does "y" to receive max points.  In a
> >>> practical sense the closer the pilot is to getting a 10 or
> >>> "maintaining-track" during a snap, the closer he is to
> getting a zero or
> >>> at
> >>> least severely downgraded, primarily because the judges are
> instructed
> >>> to
> >>> look for an over exaggerated criteria of "pitch-break" first.
>  The loop
> >>> of
> >>> pilot control input, plane's reaction, and judge perception
> (or grading
> >>> of
> >>> maneuver observation based on this staggered snap judging
> criteria), is
> >>> different for each skill level of pilot and skill level of
> judge.  Also,
> >>> the
> >>> judging criteria seems to lock in a particular single sequence of
> >>> transmitter usage (IE, elevator first then other inputs).
> Does that mean
> >>> that any pilot that uses a snap button - which inputs all
> control inputs
> >>> at
> >>> once, automatically receives a severe downgrade?  Should
> there be a rule
> >>> to
> >>> outlaw snap buttons?  Also, the faster the pilot can input
> the elevator
> >>> then
> >>> other controls, correspondingly reduces the effect the judges are
> >>> instructed
> >>> to look for (IE, pitch break first). Also, there seems to be
> a belief by
> >>> some that you cannot perform a good snap roll without deviating the
> >>> line -
> >>> (IE, someone states "...I know it was a snap because you had
> to correct
> >>> the
> >>> line afterward).  Thus, to my reading, there exists conflicting
> >>> judging/scoring criteria for this maneuver.  What is also neglected in
> >>> the
> >>> current definition is that where it states 'speed of the snap is not a
> >>> judging criteria' (seemingly intented to protect folks who want to
> >>> perform
> >>> a
> >>> docile slowly rotating snap) however - judges are quick to say -
> >>> "...pilot
> >>> uses is too much aileron".  Is 45 degrees of aileron throw too much?
> >>>
> >>> I personally like what has happened to clarify the spins and hope a
> >>> similar
> >>> approach can be taken or is underway with the snap definition.  My
> >>> opinion
> >>> has changed a bit on this particular topic as I started
> flying sequences
> >>> that require more of these maneuvers to be done.  If you
> spend a lot of
> >>> time
> >>> practicing them on straight lines, 45s, and looping maneuver
> >>> (avalanches),
> >>> the conversation quickly moves from theoretical to practical.
>  The snaps
> >>> in
> >>> these two video links would be severally downgraded or zeroed
> according
> >>> to
> >>> the precision aerobatics definitions.  Food for thought.  Not
> about me,
> >>> just
> >>> about the snap definition and critera.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Jim W.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> >>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Don
> >>> Ramsey
> >>> Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 6:27 PM
> >>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] PowerPoint Presentations
> >>>
> >>> A slow roll is acceptable.
> >>>
> >>> DR
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Ed Miller" <edbon85 at charter.net>
> >>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>> Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 3:49 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] PowerPoint Presentations
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Concerning the Master schedule 1/2 loop with full roll out.
> Is a slow
> >>>> roll
> >>>> acceptable on the full roll out or must it be a fast axial roll ??
> >>>> Ed M.
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Don Ramsey" <don.ramsey at cox.net>
> >>>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>>> Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 11:54 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] PowerPoint Presentations
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Adam,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 404-2:    The stall turn must be in the direction of flight.
> >>>>> 404-7:    The humpty is defined as 1/4 roll up and 3/4 roll down.
> >>>>> That's
> >>>>> 3/4 down and not 3 of 4.
> >>>>> 404-12:  Slow roll should be a minimum of 3 seconds
> >>>>> 404-18:  AMA rule on snaps is on page 78 of the rulebook.
> You can get
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> the rulebook through the judging site where the Powerpoint
> >>>>> presentations
> >>>>> are
> >>>>> found.  But in a nutshell:
> >>>>> 1. Since the maneuver is defined as a stall maneuver (initiated by a
> >>>>> rapid
> >>>>> stall of the wing induced by a change in pitch attitude),
> the nose of
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> fuselage should show a definite break from the flight path in the
> >>>>> direction
> >>>>> of the snap (positive or negative) while the track closely maintains
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> flight path. The track visualized as the path of the Center
> of Gravity
> >>>>> (CG)
> >>>>> should ideally follow the geometric flight path of the
> maneuver while
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> nose and tail autorotate through opposite helical arcs around the
> >>>>> flight
> >>>>> path. A snap  that does not show a break and stall to initiate the
> >>>>> snap,
> >>>>> but
> >>>>> does enter a stalled attitude during the maneuver is severely
> >>>>> downgraded.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So
> >>>>> * lack of a definite break of the nose is not a zero but severe
> >>>>> downgrade
> >>>>> * track of CG should ideally follow the geometry of the maneuver for
> >>>>> max
> >>>>> points
> >>>>> Other Points:
> >>>>> * Barrel roll or axial roll is a zero
> >>>>> * Speed of snap is not a judging criteria
> >>>>> * Airspeed may decrease in the snap with no downgrade
> >>>>> * If model is roll to a finish the downgrade is applied
> using 1 pt per
> >>>>> 15
> >>>>> degree rule.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Don
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "Adam Glatt" <adam.g at sasktel.net>
> >>>>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 10:29 AM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] PowerPoint Presentations
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Good stuff, Don.  These are very helpful for learning a
> schedule that
> >>>>>> you don't fly.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have a few questions about judging Masters that I
> recommend should
> >>>>>> be
> >>>>>> answered on the presentation.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 404-2:  Does the stall turn itself have to rotate in the upwind
> >>>>>> direction?
> >>>>>> 404-7:  There seems to be an option here, but 2of2 has the
> same name
> >>>>>> as
> >>>>>> 1of2, though the Arrestis are different.
> >>>>>> 404-12:  What is the rule book definition of 'slow?'
> >>>>>> 404-18:  The rulebook definition/description of a snap?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -Adam
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Don Ramsey wrote:
> >>>>>>> For those who may be judging Advanced, Masters, P-07 and
> especially
> >>>>>>> F3A wednesday judges for F-07 there are PowerPoint
> presentations on
> >>>>>>> the NSRCA judging page
> >>>>>>> http://www.nsrca.org/competition/judging/judging.htm.
> Look for the
> >>>>>>> link near the bottom of the Judging Home Page.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Don
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>
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> >>
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