[NSRCA-discussion] PowerPoint Presentations

Ron Van Putte vanputte at cox.net
Mon Jul 3 12:26:22 AKDT 2006 

On Jul 3, 2006, at 2:52 PM, george w. kennie wrote:

> Can you complete a true 3 second slow roll and still give me a 50 foot
> straight and level entry line b/4 the pull into the Pyramid ???? I  
> still
> have strong feelings that a slow roll is in a class of maneuvers  
> that are
> requirement-specific to the elemental requirement demanded by the  
> sequence
> at the specified time and should not be a pilot's option to be  
> employed on a
> whim. The book refers to rolls as having elements that are "crisp",  
> and
> there is little in a slow roll that displays "crisp". I remember  
> Henderson
> doing a triangle loop with a roll across the top and he was using a  
> slow
> roll that was not specified in the maneuver description and I  
> objected to
> the practice on the basis that the element was not specified and it  
> also was
> a cheat to make it difficult for the judges to determine if the  
> pilot knew
> where the correct centering of the roll in the straight line across  
> the top
> needed to be executed.
> Of course, as always, I could be all wet, but that's my view.

On this topic, I think Georgie is soggy.  Roll rate is not a judging  
criteria, unless different roll rates are performed within a  
maneuver.  All roll rates are to be the same within a maneuver unless  
otherwise specified.  A good example of roll rate to downgrade is the  
Double Immelmann, in which many pilots perform a fast roll on top and  
a slow roll on the bottom:  Downgrade.

Ron Van Putte

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Ramsey" <don.ramsey at cox.net>
> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 6:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] PowerPoint Presentations
>
>
>> A slow roll is acceptable.
>>
>> DR
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ed Miller" <edbon85 at charter.net>
>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 3:49 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] PowerPoint Presentations
>>
>>
>>> Concerning the Master schedule 1/2 loop with full roll out.  Is a  
>>> slow
>>> roll
>>> acceptable on the full roll out or must it be a fast axial roll ??
>>> Ed M.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Don Ramsey" <don.ramsey at cox.net>
>>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 11:54 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] PowerPoint Presentations
>>>
>>>
>>>> Adam,
>>>>
>>>> 404-2:    The stall turn must be in the direction of flight.
>>>> 404-7:    The humpty is defined as 1/4 roll up and 3/4 roll down.
>>>> That's
>>>> 3/4 down and not 3 of 4.
>>>> 404-12:  Slow roll should be a minimum of 3 seconds
>>>> 404-18:  AMA rule on snaps is on page 78 of the rulebook.  You  
>>>> can get
>>>> to
>>>> the rulebook through the judging site where the Powerpoint  
>>>> presentations
>>>> are
>>>> found.  But in a nutshell:
>>>> 1. Since the maneuver is defined as a stall maneuver (initiated  
>>>> by a
>>>> rapid
>>>> stall of the wing induced by a change in pitch attitude), the  
>>>> nose of
>>>> the
>>>> fuselage should show a definite break from the flight path in the
>>>> direction
>>>> of the snap (positive or negative) while the track closely  
>>>> maintains the
>>>> flight path. The track visualized as the path of the Center of  
>>>> Gravity
>>>> (CG)
>>>> should ideally follow the geometric flight path of the maneuver  
>>>> while
>>>> the
>>>> nose and tail autorotate through opposite helical arcs around  
>>>> the flight
>>>> path. A snap  that does not show a break and stall to initiate  
>>>> the snap,
>>>> but
>>>> does enter a stalled attitude during the maneuver is severely
>>>> downgraded.
>>>>
>>>> So
>>>> * lack of a definite break of the nose is not a zero but severe
>>>> downgrade
>>>> * track of CG should ideally follow the geometry of the maneuver  
>>>> for max
>>>> points
>>>> Other Points:
>>>> * Barrel roll or axial roll is a zero
>>>> * Speed of snap is not a judging criteria
>>>> * Airspeed may decrease in the snap with no downgrade
>>>> * If model is roll to a finish the downgrade is applied using 1  
>>>> pt per
>>>> 15
>>>> degree rule.
>>>>
>>>> Don
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Adam Glatt" <adam.g at sasktel.net>
>>>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 10:29 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] PowerPoint Presentations
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Good stuff, Don.  These are very helpful for learning a  
>>>>> schedule that
>>>>> you don't fly.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a few questions about judging Masters that I recommend  
>>>>> should be
>>>>> answered on the presentation.
>>>>>
>>>>> 404-2:  Does the stall turn itself have to rotate in the upwind
>>>>> direction?
>>>>> 404-7:  There seems to be an option here, but 2of2 has the same  
>>>>> name as
>>>>> 1of2, though the Arrestis are different.
>>>>> 404-12:  What is the rule book definition of 'slow?'
>>>>> 404-18:  The rulebook definition/description of a snap?
>>>>>
>>>>> -Adam
>>>>>
>>>>> Don Ramsey wrote:
>>>>>> For those who may be judging Advanced, Masters, P-07 and  
>>>>>> especially
>>>>>> F3A wednesday judges for F-07 there are PowerPoint  
>>>>>> presentations on
>>>>>> the NSRCA judging page
>>>>>> http://www.nsrca.org/competition/judging/judging.htm.  Look  
>>>>>> for the
>>>>>> link near the bottom of the Judging Home Page.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>>>>> -------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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